Unlocking Real Estate Wealth: OPM Strategies and the Power of Ice Baths

Chris Kiefer (00:01.333)

like I'll stop recording and then it takes a second generally to upload everything. But I had one time someone was like, all right, see ya, and they just shut their computer down and it didn't upload the last five minutes of the recording or whatever. So, yeah. And then if the quality, one other note is if the quality goes down while we're talking, you just, like if it breaks up for some reason, it's still recording everything locally.

Jordan Reyes (00:03.51)

Aha.

Jordan Reyes (00:15.473)

Oh shoot.

Jordan Reyes (00:23.014)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (00:28.629)

So like if you're in the middle of a thought, just like finish that and you know, if we need to, we'll pause after you finish whatever it is you're saying. But it looks like we are good. You got a strong internet connection. All right.

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. Today I am with Jordan Reyes who is a fighting saint, if you guys know of the great Carroll College, I was gonna say university, but I guess it's just a college because I don't even know what the difference is, but Jordan and I met at Carroll College. We were on the basketball team there together and in his, you know, ladder.

the non-college part of his life, he has gotten into real estate, which is what we're here to talk about today. So I will let you kind of take that, Jordan, but thanks, first of all, thanks for coming on and give us kind of the 60 second bio of who Jordan Reyes is.

Jordan Reyes (01:27.038)

Yeah, hey, thanks, Chris, for having me. Also, probably your claim to fame is knocking out my two front teeth. I don't know if you remember doing that.

Chris Kiefer (01:36.197)

I lost my, I got my teeth knocked out of Carol, but I forgot that I, it was with my forearm. I remember coming back and it was when we, wasn't it just like, like we were just like two on two or three on three or something?

Jordan Reyes (01:42.91)

Yep. Yeah, there's the scar.

Jordan Reyes (01:50.918)

I don't even remember we were just playing like after practice or before practice or something. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the other claim to fame.

Chris Kiefer (01:54.437)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've totally forgot about that. I thought you were gonna say my claim to fame is that I have 100% field goal percentage at Carroll College because I went two for two in the one game that I played in. Yeah, but yes, also knocking out Jordan's teeth.

Jordan Reyes (02:06.406)

Well, yeah, second to that. Second to that. No, but again, thanks for having me, Chris. It's good to be here. So yeah, I've done so since college done a lot of different things, kind of a jack of all trades. But most recently in this newest life, really focused on real estate investing for the last couple of years. So we buy properties all over Montana. We do deals with.

with other folks outside of the state. We've done deals in Ohio, we've done deals in California, we have deals in Virginia and Texas right now. And so anything that is real estate related, we look at doing.

Chris Kiefer (02:48.129)

Nice. I just have to say, I'm just laughing to myself to just how many times in your life you're like, fuck, Chris Kieffer, just like, that's the thing that is associated with me from your perspective. I'm just like, oh, that's hilarious and awful, and I apologize. But yes, real estate, good stuff. I've been talking, I have some good friends here in Coeur d'Alene that are deep into syndication deals. I learned about the

Is it 206B? Could be thinking of the wrong, for non-accredited investors. There's a 506. Yes. So, for the people listening, if you listen to those other episodes, you may or may not be familiar, but kind of give me the technical side of like someone listening that's like, oh, I'm wanting to get into this for myself, or maybe they wanna be a part of a deal that you're putting together. Where do you fall in the various methods of investing in real estate?

Jordan Reyes (03:23.67)

506, 506B and 506C.

Jordan Reyes (03:48.386)

So that's a great question. We actually don't do any syndications. We partner with people, so there's a difference, right? And there's a difference between larger type deals and smaller type deals. So we usually have a, not always, but a lot of the ways that deals are funded, if you wanna be no money out of pocket, we kind of break down some deals, but.

Like the last one that we did, I called one of my friends and said, hey, I have this great deal. Do you wanna be involved in it? And we need.

40,000 or we need 50,000. And I know the guy previously, and he's always said like, hey, if the next deal you get, I wanna be in on it because they see what we do and they trust us. And I said, hey, here's the deal. If we sell it in a day, we sell it in a week, we sell it in a month, we'll give you a flat fee, which was like $5,000, right? We ended up selling that deal, I think in less than a month, it was three weeks or so. So he got put in, I think.

you know, let's say you put in 50 and made five grand back in less than 30 days. So, and it's folks that are, that are not, uh, it's hard to find those deals. So, you know, some folks that you meet.

You wouldn't think have money necessarily, but it's really about talking to them and getting to know them. And somebody might have five grand, 10 grand, 25 grand to put into a deal, but they work full time. They can't find those deals. So you're bringing them opportunities, right? And then on the bigger scale, when you get into larger multifamily type deals, those are where the syndication's coming to play. There's...

Jordan Reyes (05:29.962)

But with that, you're having lawyers involved, syndication lawyers, securities lawyers, draw up your paperwork and PPMs, which is a private placement memorandum. And there's a difference between a GP and an LP. And so it gets complicated, or it can get complicated. Whereas ours are a little bit more short term, and it may be on a one-to-one basis, where it's completely

you know, the property. And this indication is not necessarily true.

Chris Kiefer (06:01.889)

So that's super interesting. I'm like, okay, I had no, this is why I love talking to people on podcasts because like, okay, this is opening my eyes to something. So you're saying is that I've got, you know, 50 grand or 100 grand, that's just like, I could utilize it, but I don't have, I don't have a, like you said, I'm working full time. So you're growing your network. And when you say like looking for deals,

if you can pick one and just get as specific as you can on like I'm just trying to understand what is the opportunity from your end that you're able to leverage or flip or I Don't like what is it that you are finding and then how are you? Turning this around in 30 days or 60 or whatever the time frame is

Jordan Reyes (06:51.21)

Well, so every deal is a little bit different. So I really enjoy talking to people, getting to know them, kind of the networking, but also talking to sellers. So there's just different situations. There's deals that take eight years, eight months to do a flip. There's things that take 30 days. So in that example, I never use any of my own money.

So in that example, what happened was we market a lot of different ways. We cold call, we have VAs that cold call, we have direct mail campaigns, we have pay per click, Google, Facebook ads. So there's a number of different ways. We also have people that are just like, we have some inbound stuff and we have partners that are just like, I don't know what to do next. Like, can you help me? So we structured deals all kinds of different ways, but in that last deal, I

We bought a lead and we had a lead and found out what their pain point was, right? So we're always on the phone, we're talking to somebody, seller's appointments, all that kind of stuff. Found out their pain point and said, and then we made an offer based on, you know, looking at the area, knowing it, knowing the surroundings, kind of having an idea of what the amount of work would be from a fix and flip kind of standpoint. And

made an offer, I think we offered 25 grand, and they came back and said, I need 35. And so we said, okay, we'll give you 35. And so at that point, buying a house, it's a house here. This is in, well, it's in Montana. So the smaller town in Montana, but...

Chris Kiefer (08:25.097)

What is this that you're buying? But what part of the country are you getting a house for 30 grand?

Chris Kiefer (08:37.052)

Okay.

Jordan Reyes (08:41.094)

it was completely gutted. There was nothing inside of it. So it's like a shell of a house, right? So the buyers are going to be an investor or somebody like myself that can fix and flip or has a team or maybe has a construction background. That's going to be the buyer, right? So there's a couple of different ways you can do it. You can get it under contract and then you can wholesale the deal, right? Which is

Chris Kiefer (08:45.976)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (08:57.997)

Hmm

Jordan Reyes (09:05.33)

you never actually close on it. But say I got this deal in a contract, I then say, hey, Chris, I have this deal under contract. I will assign you my interest in the contract. You just pay me a fee, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, whatever the fee is, and you can do it that way. In that instance, you never close on the property, you never own the property. That is one way. But the other way that we...

Chris Kiefer (09:23.021)

Ah...

Chris Kiefer (09:30.397)

And that one, so to just be for my sake, that is the value that you are bringing is you're seeking and scraping the market and just staying attuned to like what properties exist. And then you have a list of people that are wanting to get into real estate that have different backgrounds and things they're looking for, but they don't have time to look. And so you're the, just like bringing that, you're the matchmaker saying, hey, you know, hey John, I know you were looking for something that kind of fit this.

I've got this under contract if you want, like it's yours. And it's, I already like, I'm already in contract so no one else can get this. And if you do, my take is 5,000 or 10,000 or whatever, and then they just come in and buy it and take it. Is that correct?

Jordan Reyes (10:16.074)

Yeah, that is one way of doing it. There's a whole bunch of different ways, but like the last one that we did, we actually bought. We closed on it and then listed it the next day because I knew that we could list it for a higher price. And so now our private money lender who lent us money for the deal is secured by the property and can see the listing, sees all of that and knows that he's gonna get his money back in a secure way.

Chris Kiefer (10:29.387)

Okay.

Jordan Reyes (10:46.008)

That's also important. It's an important way to build a relationship with your private money lenders as well.

Chris Kiefer (10:53.917)

And you in that, so the second scenario where you're actually buying it and sometimes it's like you've got a laundry list of things that you need to fix that aren't going to be terribly difficult. But you're saying there's also situations where you're just like literally they're undervaluing their property or they don't know how to market it or whatever. And so you find this opportunity, you buy it and you literally can do nothing on the property, do a better job of marketing it and then raise the price by 30 grand or whatever and sell that.

Jordan Reyes (11:22.474)

Yes. So, and everybody's in a little bit different of a scenario. There's some sellers that like need cash today. Like they can't wait 45, 60 days. We do a lot of creative financing. So people are going into pre-foreclosure and they need to, they don't wanna, instead of going back claiming bankruptcy, we help them, we get the payments caught up. We take control of the property basically. And then...

Chris Kiefer (11:23.628)

That's awesome.

Chris Kiefer (11:50.913)

and then sell it and let it close on a regular timeline.

Jordan Reyes (11:54.142)

Yeah, we either we either close it ourselves as like a long term buy and hold, we can fix and flip or we close and then can list it. So there's, there's all kinds of different extra strategies.

Chris Kiefer (12:05.325)

Hmm and that's so yeah, it all just comes back to depending yet Not only you're finding the right property But also the circumstances that match up with whatever that current owner needs and what you guys can provide Then you're just getting creative on how to make that work

Jordan Reyes (12:18.77)

Yeah, and then also whatever we're working on. So like we're working on a few flips. I don't necessarily want to start a complete gut and tear down. So I'll say, hey, let's just list it. And if we get something that we like, then we'll take it. If not, we'll get to it in six months when we have some free time to get to it.

Chris Kiefer (12:39.777)

Okay. And then so you're, you've been saying like, we talked to me about your team. We're I'm a big fan of VA's. That's awesome to hear that you got you're also into that space. They're just, just like huge, huge leverage for scaling processes and systems. But yet what does your team look like in art? Cause you did, were you in construction down in California?

Jordan Reyes (13:03.178)

So I was in construction, but it was more project management. So we partnered on new construction. So very similar to what we do now. Just when COVID hit, it was a lot.

scarier to be a new construction just because of timelines. You know you're you know you could be a year out from build and then to sell it and so with that nobody knew what was going to happen when COVID first hit and so I was scared and so I just thought I don't want to do that I want to do something that might take me three months or six months not be stuck in it right so that's kind

Chris Kiefer (13:20.173)

Hmm.

Jordan Reyes (13:46.48)

With that being said, I'm now looking back at doing more new development stuff, larger multi-family and things like that.

Chris Kiefer (13:55.917)

That's awesome. And so this all started from COVID. That was the shift of, or like the initial push to get into this. Is that correct?

Jordan Reyes (14:04.714)

Well, I would say that it was before that. I was kind of looking for, I was looking at a commercial building at the time and didn't really know what I was looking at. This is when I had my Agtech company and so we were looking at some commercial space and I didn't really know what I was looking for. Ended up.

you know, reaching out to some friends that I knew, and we ended up partnering on some new construction stuff. And that's kind of how I got started into it. Yeah, there's some opportunity here. I really enjoyed that. And I'd always kind of enjoyed construction and architecture and things of that nature.

Chris Kiefer (14:34.081)

your eyes were open and like, oh, there's some opportunity here.

Jordan Reyes (14:45.618)

in real estate and so that's how I originally got into it but it wasn't until I moved to Montana that it was moved back to Montana that it was kind of more full-time and the reason that we kind of moved back was kind of a trip that we took during COVID so I would say that did play a significant role in it for sure.

Chris Kiefer (15:08.073)

Yeah. I'm curious just like in the topic of real estate, the investing strategies, what is the thing that is like, and it could be a couple, what are the topics or niche ideas that you've come across or things that you're like most excited about that you feel like, I'm sure there's stuff that either it's like, I can't believe other people don't know about this, or this is something that was like a huge, I don't know, cheat code, but you know what I mean, in like an unlock of opportunity.

What are the one, two, three ideas of like the stuff that you're super excited about currently?

Jordan Reyes (15:44.17)

Man, there's so many things that I'm excited about. So one of the biggest ones is you always hear, if you go on YouTube, you go on Instagram, you go on any of these places, it's like, don't use your own money. You can buy real estate for little to no down. But when you actually do it, it's completely different. And you're like, it's really this easy, right? It's don't, you don't need to save 20% for your house on a down payment.

literally every conversation I have, whether it's on market or off market, I'm leaning into a creative strategy. So that's seller finance that's subject to, um, and a lot of these even for real estate professionals or agents that have been doing it 20, 30 years, they have no idea what you're even talking about. Right. But, um,

Chris Kiefer (16:33.325)

Wow.

Jordan Reyes (16:36.37)

It's the way that has been done even before there were banks, right? So it has a long history of it and there's people that do it all over the place, but it's not mainstream. And so utilizing those techniques, leveraging other people's money, not only for your benefit, right? But in that story that I just

you know, gave you a little bit ago, the guy made five grand for doing nothing, right? He made five grand, yeah. And obviously, you have to pick, you know, the right team to work with, right? You don't just go and give it to anybody and make sure you're secure on the property and all those types of due diligence things. But he had money sitting around and instead of putting it in like a 401k or the stocks and maybe making, you know.

Chris Kiefer (17:03.081)

Right. Trusted you. Yeah, and exactly.

Jordan Reyes (17:24.102)

six, seven, eight percent. You may, I don't even know what that is, but it's 200 percent. Yeah, so, I mean the opportunities are there. So it's, and so the way that I have shifted my mindset is now that what I used to think is, oh I'm going to go to Chris and I'm going to ask him, like, Chris can you give me $50,000?

Chris Kiefer (17:28.289)

Yeah, five or on 30, did you say? Yeah, something like that.

Jordan Reyes (17:51.326)

Now I don't think I don't look at it that way. It's, hey, Chris, here's an opportunity for you. It's a great opportunity. You're gonna make money. And if you don't, if you don't wanna do it, no harm, no foul, we'll just go and give this opportunity to somebody else that will take it, right? So it's just a shift in the mindset too. But like I said, all the creative finance and leveraging those strategies have been...

Chris Kiefer (17:53.409)

You want to partner with me or I've got an opportunity.

Jordan Reyes (18:18.726)

my main focus lately as of late.

Chris Kiefer (18:22.313)

Yeah, the so I'm curious just with our like Natalie nice current situation like I've been very interested in I Want we have one rental property that we owned long term that someone's been living in and I'd like to get another one And so I've been I literally prior to this I was thinking okay So we got to get 25% down for a rental and that's just my locked mindset of like that's what we had to do in the last one, so

Like, what is the if and again, my I also I know for a fact that if I thought if I looked outside of Coeur d'Alene, there's obviously much cheaper houses and we probably could do a traditional deal that way. But if and again, I get there's just probably why would I want to look outside of Coeur d'Alene?

Jordan Reyes (19:07.522)

But why would you want to?

No, why would you want to put 25% down?

Chris Kiefer (19:13.949)

Or yeah, I guess that's another good point. I'm just saying that in my head, I'm like, maybe I'm the reason I haven't gotten another property yet is because I'm locked into Coeur d'Alene and I need to open my eyes to somewhere else. I feel like there's definitely comfort in investing in the place you live. Cause you can go look at the house yourself. Right. I understand you could build a team, but I guess I'm curious. Like it, I don't even know if there's a simple like steps that you would break down, but for someone like me, it's like, we are actively.

or I don't even want to say actively, we have started conversations of like, hey, are you interested in this? Yeah, this would be a good idea. Let's plan and we should set aside some money and start saving for this. But it's like early stages of just like, I know that I want to continue to acquire rental properties because I just believe in managing money long-term in real estate as opposed to the stock market. But what would you, what advice would you give me on like, here's some things you could think about and.

Do you also, would you discourage looking in Coeur d'Alene or maybe not discourage is too strong of a word, but if I'm afraid to look outside of Coeur d'Alene, what would you say to that?

Jordan Reyes (20:22.614)

So there's a lot. So the first thing I would say is partner with me on something, you know? But really, for folks looking, we actually might have a deal in Coeur d'Alene, which is a duplex that I am looking at.

Chris Kiefer (20:29.461)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (20:36.374)

Oh, that's awesome.

Jordan Reyes (20:38.282)

Yeah, again, seller finance, a portion of it would be seller finance because

I tell everybody that I talk to, I'm not really looking for cash type deals. If we're looking for cash type deals, we have to be 60 to 70 cents on the dollar. That's the only way it makes sense because interest rates are way too high, you don't cash flow. But I would say that it really depends on kind of the cycle of life that you're in. If you have a good job and you make good money.

Chris Kiefer (20:54.573)

Hmm.

Jordan Reyes (21:09.174)

You're not necessarily as worried about the cash flow. Now, if you're looking to like replace your income, that's different, but maybe you're looking to offset some taxes and do some other strategies. That's different than...

you know, somebody that's just looking for an investment to replace their job. So somebody that's looking for money to replace their job is going to be hard to find in Coeur d'Alene, right? Because everything is going to be expensive. It doesn't cashflow. Are there deals? There are, but they're hard to find. The same, the same way with, you know, some, some of the major cities, you know, obviously Missoula, Bozeman, Big Sky, Whitefish here in Montana, all those are very hard to cashflow in, um, and don't really make sense.

unless you can get them creatively structured.

But probably the easiest way is letting people know what you're looking for, right? So whether that be an agent, they're not going to be, typically they probably won't be as helpful because they're dealing with people who already want to sell but they're going to sell for cash typically on the higher end and they're going to put it on the market so they don't have that pain point necessarily.

Chris Kiefer (22:02.713)

Hmm.

Jordan Reyes (22:25.016)

throughout the country and if you're looking for investment property I would search and look for those wholesalers in your area get connected with them go to real estate meetups get to know the people that are doing those deals get to know the people that are doing fix and flips

and other investors because they're finding their deals somehow. Whether that's through an off-market agent or they're buying from a wholesaler. And in that instance, you get to know them and you get to know the wholesaler and you might be able to find a deal that makes more sense, right? So that's probably the easiest way.

Chris Kiefer (22:44.985)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (22:58.881)

So what's it, what is, this is just my ignorance, what is a wholesaler?

Jordan Reyes (23:03.746)

So a wholesaler is, remember that story I gave you where I said, hey, I have this thing under contract, Chris, do you wanna buy it from me? That's a wholesaler, right? So they never close on the property, they tie the property up, they get the property under contract, and then they go and find a buyer. So that's what a wholesaler does.

Chris Kiefer (23:17.817)

Uh, okay. And so there, and just logistically from, again, maybe there's a totally different path than what I'm familiar with in our own house purchases, but why would someone go under contract with a wholesaler? Um, or what does that look like from the seller's perspective to take the house off the market to go under contract with someone that is like, do you, does the wholesaler disclose to this?

seller like I am a wholesaler I'm not actually going to buy your property I'm going to find somebody or I mean sometimes I do but is it possible to do that where they're not telling the seller and they're just like what does that actually look like contractually for the person selling the house

Jordan Reyes (23:59.862)

So there are definitely wholesalers that don't say they are wholesaling. Can you do it? Yeah. Is it a little shady? Yeah. Right. So like if we're, we typically, we don't, aren't always looking to wholesaler deal. We're looking to buy it first. Right. So like in our contracts, it does say that we can market, we can assign the property. Um,

Chris Kiefer (24:09.421)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (24:16.682)

Yeah.

Jordan Reyes (24:22.974)

And I like to be upfront with people. They're usually in a situation where they're like, hey, I need to sell this. That's the other thing is they're not taking it off the market. We're reaching out to them or getting ahold of them prior to them even thinking about it. And there could be a number of reasons why it doesn't go on market. They need a bunch of repairs. It's not like agents don't wanna deal with that stuff. So they'll just be like, well, Chris, you need to make all these repairs.

We need to do the landscaping before we can add photos. And so, because it's a pain for them, we come in and say, we're just gonna buy it as is. This is the amount that you're getting in your pocket. You're not paying closing costs. You're not paying anything to title. We handle everything and here's your price basically. So, but we always tell people that we're, you know, looking to assign it if or wholesale it if we're not gonna be the end buyer. So,

Chris Kiefer (24:54.445)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (25:05.443)

Hmm.

Jordan Reyes (25:15.702)

That's how it looks from the seller side. Do wholesalers not disclose that? Yeah. And that's why wholesalers get a bad name. So.

Chris Kiefer (25:23.013)

Uh, so then you're coming or just going back to a situation of you would come in and say, Hey, we're, cause you're still, I don't know if this is still a situation of not using your own money, you're coming in and saying, Hey, this is what we would give you in cash when we close. I'm going to, I'm going to find someone that's going to buy this property. I think I know someone that would right now, I just need to reach out to them. So you enter into a contract. Is that person paying cash for the property?

in this scenario or are they getting financing traditionally like through a bank? It's just you're not putting money down, is that correct?

Jordan Reyes (25:56.834)

So that is the easiest way to get into real estate is through wholesaling. I mean, you do spend a little bit of money. You might have some marketing costs and things of that nature, but you're not using, you're not coming with any down payment, right? So take it to the next step. So if like we buy a property, say you're the wholesaler and you're selling it to me.

I'm not paying with cash. I'll say it's cash, but we're not paying in cash. So what happens is we have some lenders. We have some hard money lenders. We have private money lenders.

Chris Kiefer (26:21.111)

Right.

Jordan Reyes (26:27.562)

and different partners, we might partner on a deal, so it just depends, but you bring me the property and I'll say, yeah, this is a cash deal and it's $100,000, I'll probably reach out to my lender, my hard money lender, which is gonna lend based on more on the property, knowing that it's like a fix and flip, but that's why it has to be bought at a discount, right? So that's how we'll typically fund it. We'll either use a hard money or a private money lender in that situation.

Chris Kiefer (26:54.889)

Got it. Fascinating. So, yeah, what else was that was the first thing, the buying property without your own money. Was there anything else on that topic that's like just another big thing that you're excited about?

Jordan Reyes (27:08.95)

Well, it would be the creative, because sort of piggyback off of that stuff would be buying seller finance. So every conversation that I have.

finds its way into terms, right? And so whether that's on market, because we do on market as well, on market or off market, we'll say, look, here's the cash price, and they know it's a low cash price, or I can get you a higher dollar amount, but we're gonna need to come to my terms, right? And so we'll structure deals based on that. So seller finance, some...

Again, when you talk to agents, they don't really understand all of the intricacies. Some of them do, right? But some of them don't. So seller finance, they'll all say, okay, well, they have a mortgage on the property. Great. That's fine. Well, it's not assumable.

I'm not trying to assume it. So that's when subject two comes into place. And then most times people lose their minds because they're like, what are you talking about? But basically what subject two is, is exactly that as it sounds. You're taking over the property. You're buying it subject to the existing loan. Right? So you have a loan on your house, right? And it's

And I always tell people like, why would I want to go and wipe out $250,000 worth of debt at 8% when you have it at 3%? Like it's literally the same money, but now we're just paying double or triple the amount in interest. Why would anybody want to do that? I can afford a higher payment to you, but we're going to keep, only if I can, if I can offset it basically by not having to pay the bank.

Chris Kiefer (28:38.76)

Mmm.

Chris Kiefer (28:44.761)

Ah.

Chris Kiefer (28:53.213)

Ah, I see. Okay. So that's like someone's lived in the house, they refinanced when rates were all time low and they're paying 2.5% on their mortgage. You're coming in and saying, I'll buy this from you subject to your mortgage. And then legally you own the property, but then you're just paying them every month and they're technically paying the mortgage, is that right?

Jordan Reyes (29:19.522)

So you can do that, you don't wanna do that though. Like if I'm doing that, right.

Chris Kiefer (29:22.561)

Yeah, I was gonna say, because they could take the money and then not, and the bank repossesses it and you never had it.

Jordan Reyes (29:27.382)

Yeah, so there's again, there's plenty of ways to set it up. You can do lease options. You can do contract for deeds. You can take title. But if you do take title any of those scenarios really you're going to be set up with a loan servicing company. So I make my payment to a loan servicing company that loan servicing company then disperses the funds how they're needed to be dispersed. So they'll pay the mortgage. They might send you a check for a little bit of money. They might send whatever other lender a little bit of money, right?

So that's what they're correct.

Chris Kiefer (29:58.713)

the middleman to just make sure it's happening the way we all agreed. And then, so the downside of that for the seller, just trying to understand logistically why would someone agree to this, is because you're telling them you're getting them a higher price ultimately, but they're not actually getting their full cash out of the deal at that point of sale. They're making more money over a long period of time, correct, but it's not like they,

Jordan Reyes (30:23.607)

It

Chris Kiefer (30:28.045)

get a, their mortgage is still intact, and so therefore they're not like exiting, they're just getting, it's almost like they're, I guess my analogy would be, it's almost like you're renting the property from them to own it.

Jordan Reyes (30:39.971)

Mm-hmm.

It's very similar. Like that's kind of what a contract for deed is. Um, so it depends on the situation. Some people have a lot of equity. Some people have no equity, right? And so in the instance of like, Hey, I don't have any equity, but I need to move. My job is now in Texas. Um, if I sell this property on the market, I'm, I have to pay the agent. Like I'm paying the agent as a seller, right? So I come in and say, don't worry about that. I'll take over the mortgage. I'll give you $10,000 and I'll pay the agent.

because we're gonna keep the loan in place, right? So there's ways to do it. Now, if you have a bunch of equity, let's say you do have equity, maybe we just pay you in cash the equity, right? And just take over the loan. So again, it depends on the situation and the spread. There becomes a...

Chris Kiefer (31:14.713)

Ah.

Jordan Reyes (31:30.482)

a time where it meets this level of diminishing returns, right? So say it's $500,000 and you want $300,000, that doesn't make sense. But in a lower amount it does.

Chris Kiefer (31:40.377)

Right, but it would be, it makes more sense, it would make, or if I'm tracking, the higher percentage of loan to the value of the house, the more likely something like this makes sense. Or the more likely you're gonna find a deal that could pencil. If they have like 20% loan to value, probably, very unlikely that that's gonna work. Could, but it's.

Jordan Reyes (31:55.722)

Yeah, unless...

Probably.

Jordan Reyes (32:05.502)

Unless it could, yeah, but more likely in the higher. Sometimes people are like, hey, this is my second house. I don't really care. I don't wanna get taxed when I sell this. I'll sell or finance it to you, right? So that's the other instance in the high equity side of things. In the low equity side of things, yes. It's probably not as rare as it would be in the high equity.

Chris Kiefer (32:28.445)

And then the last question I have on that is, okay, so I'm tracking with you, I guess this is just an assumption, doing things the creative way, non-traditional loan way, or non-conventional loan, the increased risk is what to you and or the seller who's financing this?

Jordan Reyes (32:50.722)

There's not really a whole bunch more risk. Obviously the risk is a lot of people will point to the due on sale clause, right? So there's typically a due on sale clause that states, hey, if you do sell this property, the loan will be called due or can be called due. I've never had that happen to me. The bank isn't necessarily in the business of repossessing and owning real estate, they're in the business of loaning, right? So they, as long as you're kind of

of making the payments. Not to say that it could never happen because it could. But there's also ways that you can get around that going back to like the lease option.

Chris Kiefer (33:24.409)

Could, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (33:29.569)

But, and if I understand that correctly again, you're saying that the due on sale would be, so we have a house, we'll just call this the Smith family, they have, they've owned the house for 10 years, they sell it to me, seller finance, when I take on that mortgage, there's a clause that says if I sell this house, their original mortgage needs to be paid in full. Is that correct? Because I was gonna say, that seems logical to me, but.

Jordan Reyes (33:55.394)

So the mortgage, yeah, so the mortgage company, say Bank of America, you own this house. In your mortgage statement, it says, there is a due on sale clause. Like when you sign the documents, there's already one there. So now I'm taking.

Chris Kiefer (34:08.249)

Oh, gotcha. So the moment that we sign it, the bank could say, oh, you just sold the house, even though you're not claiming you did or whatever. But now they own the title or the deed of the house. And they could say, guess what, Chris, you now owe the full price of this house. And I didn't go through traditional lending. So now I'm like, what happens in that situation?

Jordan Reyes (34:16.715)

Yeah.

Jordan Reyes (34:30.85)

So you're again, the way we write them, you're not responsible for that, we are, right? So through a promissory note, things that, meaning the buyer, if I'm buying that from you and taking on that mortgage, I am responsible for that. So.

Chris Kiefer (34:37.793)

When you say you, meaning the seller, oh, the buyer.

Chris Kiefer (34:45.109)

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Jordan Reyes (34:48.243)

you can go get it refi'd, because it's not like I'm gonna call it due and then you have to pay me tomorrow, right? So then we can go refinance it and take out another mortgage. We don't wanna do that, right, especially right now, because interest rates are so high, but.

Chris Kiefer (34:53.442)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (35:01.022)

Interest rates, yeah.

Jordan Reyes (35:02.07)

But that is a, you can do that. That's, but that's if you transferred the deed. If you did a contract or kind of a rent to own lease option, that actually never occurred, right? But just at the end of that term, we're gonna take possession of it, of the deed, you know, whether that's five years and there's a balloon or whatever the scenario is, there's different ways around it.

Chris Kiefer (35:24.157)

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Super. Yeah, I, I just, yeah, I'm, I'm very new in this space. We the house we've had two rental properties, both of which we lived in first and for two years. And then we moved in, rented it out. Then we sold our first rental property in central Oregon when we moved to our current house here. But yeah, super. I mean, I'm like very interested. You should.

keep me in mind for like just I just want to learn more about this because it sounds super interesting the other thing that I have to talk to you about unless there's anything else in real estate that you want to share or before we jump topics

Jordan Reyes (36:07.026)

No, I mean, I could talk real estate all day, so... Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (36:10.233)

I was going to say ice baths. So for those of you that follow Jordan on social, you'll see that he has just been into this cold plunges and pretty been very consistent from what I can see. So just I would be curious if we just say ice baths as a topic. What is there to know about Jordan Reyes and ice baths and tips, tricks, reasons why you're doing it, whatever.

Just dive into that topic.

Jordan Reyes (36:40.562)

Yeah, so it's something that I started. I have a, I tend to have an addictive personality and so, um, I try to do things that are obviously positive. So I, uh, I think it was three years ago.

on a trip I decided that I was going to stop drinking alcohol and that was three, I think three years ago, after kind of just a summer trip I said I want to feel what it feels like to do it for a month. A month turned into two, turned into three, turned into a year and I haven't, I haven't drank since that point. So I, when I do something I'm like, I'm going to do it and I'm going to go hard. So this is probably kind of the new, one of

ones. I like you know the health aspect of things, go to the gym regularly and do all those things from like try to study some longevity stuff but the other part of it is just mentally so I've been doing it probably for

Almost a year now, three quarters of a year. Haven't missed a day, I do it every day. It especially sucks when it's negative here and getting in the water, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (37:55.945)

which it is in Montana. For anyone not in Montana, yeah, it's cold in Montana. And your ice bath, that's the other thing is that when Jordan does the ice bath, it's like on his back patio. So like, it's not like I'm gonna go to my bougie spa and get, it's like, yeah, negative 10 outside and I'm gonna get in the water for a second, break the ice of the top of the ice bath. It's pretty intense, but anyways, continue.

Jordan Reyes (38:00.926)

Yes. So it gets...

Jordan Reyes (38:21.722)

Yeah, so I've had to break the ice. I've had to like, all right, let's go put some hot water on to kind of melt the ice so that we can actually get in before, so yeah, that's not always the most fun. But the way that it makes me feel afterwards is my mindset is like, hey, I just have to do something difficult.

And I think it's important to do something difficult every single day. And if this is the hardest part of my day, then I can accomplish a lot of the other tasks that I want to get done. And they are going to be a lot easier. So it helps reduce, obviously kind of the, you know, there's a lot of benefits. You know, it kind of reduces brown fat. It helps, you know, with your moods and sleep, stress. It helps you learn how to cope in tough situations, right?

The minute you get in, you go into like this state of shock. And so you have to control your breathing, you have to focus, and there's nothing else that you're thinking about when it's negative 10 degrees outside and you're sitting in cold water. That's all you're thinking about. You're not worried about, oh, I got to make these sales calls today, or oh, I got to go drive, you know, wherever I have to go, or, you know, my wife's mad at me, or any of that. You don't think about anything.

So it's a way to kind of clear your mind, but also learn to focus on and control your breathing and reduce kind of the overall stress. So now when you get into those really stressful situations outside of that, you're like, not that big of a deal. I've been here before. So your body adapts and learns how to cope better with stress. So a lot of people with anxiety and depression really, you know...

really like that cold bath or ice plunge protocol. It does well for them.

Chris Kiefer (40:18.461)

Yeah, are you coupling it with Sana at all? So do you have a Sana in your house, so you go that into Sana or?

Jordan Reyes (40:21.862)

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I know. So, but I, I probably, uh, we are getting one. Um, but I probably sauna, I would say probably three or four times a week. Yeah. So I go to the gym and then I'll lift depending on kind of what we're doing. I'll either lift and then sauna or sauna and then lift. Um, just kind of depending on the day.

Chris Kiefer (40:39.477)

Okay, and does.

Chris Kiefer (40:47.293)

Yeah. And you always, do you do set like morning? It's like within the first hour of when you waking up, you're doing it, or is it in the afternoon? Like when do you tackle the ice bath?

Jordan Reyes (40:59.938)

usually in the morning. So right now it's first thing in the morning, right? Because I want to do the hardest thing, the hardest part of the day in the morning. And then some, usually in the winter it's a little bit later, so I'll usually get up, get some work done, and then do it. But it's still morning time. Yeah, exactly. So I can see when we're smashing through the ice at least.

Chris Kiefer (41:16.493)

So it's at least light outside when it's cold, not like cold and dark. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I've been there's a there's a spa that is in Coeur d'Alene that I go to. It's just like a literally a cold plunge in sauna. Super trendy, you know. But I have this is actually it's been like I didn't anticipate this because I originally was like it all started because I was thinking about I wanted to get a sauna and I was going to just do like the horse trough and sauna thing, you know, at our house.

I was like, I'm just going to try this spa thing out to see like if I were to do this for a couple of months, do I actually love it enough to have it on my property, you know, and invest the money and having it myself. But then when I started doing was I'll just meet people and be like, or it's friends of mine that I haven't talked to or having like, instead of getting coffee or getting a drink, it's like, Hey, come to heat practice here with me. And then we just sit in the sauna for 20 minutes, go dip in the cold plunge, go back to the sauna. And it's like an hour, you know,

But it's just like a way, I think it's a way more, honestly fun and novel thing to do than just like sit down at a coffee shop, you know? And you're just like literally in like a private sauna, two person sauna and just chatting about whatever. But it's been like this cool like networking thing. I'm like, hey, some people are like totally down. Other people are like, I don't know, like I've never done that before or whatever. But.

I do, what I was gonna say is that the water there is, in the morning if you go, it's like 40 degrees, which is really cold, but generally I would say it's between like 47 and 52, which is also cold, but the days where it's 40, if you're like the first person and it's been cooling all night, that is like, that is cold, cold water. But what is the, do you have any, do you like put a thermometer in to see, or do you like?

Jordan Reyes (43:18.622)

Right now it's, yeah, it's a little bit on the warmer side, probably between 45 and 50. I like it like at 33.

And that's what it is like most of the winter. Because it's like, that's the hardest part to do. And then sometimes we'll go, as the river kind of breaks up and it's not all iced over, we'll go to the river and do it. And that's even tougher because it breaks kind of that thermal barrier. Like if you sit there, you create a thermal barrier. But as the water moves, it gets even more cold. So, but to tie, I mean, to tie those two together, that's the other reason that I like going to the sauna.

Chris Kiefer (43:26.483)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Chris Kiefer (43:39.504)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (43:46.089)

Yes, yes, 100%. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Jordan Reyes (43:56.916)

I try to be intentional about what I'm doing and so I try to meet people and that is a form of networking. So we'll get in the sauna and you're in there for 20-30 minutes and you start talking to people you learn about you know what they do or what they want to do. I've had conversations where it literally ended and be like hey can you come look at my house like I don't know what to do I want to sell it and so for me it's just another way of networking and finding

Chris Kiefer (44:24.745)

And that's just like the health club or wherever the gym you go to, that's the sauna you're talking about? Yeah. That is, yeah, that's the pro and con of this spa or like this business is that you have like your own private room. So, which is nice if you're bringing someone, you can have like a private conversation, but it would also be super cool if they just had like, like you could just opt to show up whenever you want and go to the group sauna.

Jordan Reyes (44:29.527)

Yep.

Chris Kiefer (44:51.649)

and just like if you're open to chatting with whoever else comes in, but that's not how this is set up. So you gotta bring your conversation with you. But either way, yeah, I'm a big fan of it and I just, for the same reasons that you're saying, I'm a, I've done, like I'm very consistent at the gym. I at least go four days a week, crossfit, and usually try and hit five, but it's like.

Jordan Reyes (44:59.403)

All right.

Chris Kiefer (45:19.693)

The gym and the cold plunge are two things. It's like, when I go on vacation, if I don't have that, it's like within three days, I'm just like, just feel, yeah, it's just terrible, you know? How have you done that? Have you traveled? Did you bring your cold plunge with you?

Jordan Reyes (45:30.578)

Yeah, I've done... yeah. So like, I uh, we've done hotel where I'll literally go down to the ice machine, back and forth 10, 20 times and fill up.

Chris Kiefer (45:46.477)

Dude in the bathtub.

Jordan Reyes (45:47.586)

do it in the bathtub, but now I have a portable one, kind of the same thing. And like the last time we were at a hotel or wherever we stayed, I went down to the front desk and was like, hey, do you guys have a hose outside? And they're like, what do you need a hose for? Like seven in the morning and it's freezing outside, what do you need a hose for? And I was like, oh, you know, just for like to water my flowers or something like that, I don't know.

Chris Kiefer (46:13.937)

Yeah. That's just in the make a little impromptu. You're going to start bringing your hose and those little irrigation keys because, you know, all the commercial buildings have their water spigots off of it. Anyways, that's hilarious. So wrapping up conversation, three books. Give me three book recommendations. I'm sure just anyone that's doing all the things you're doing, you probably read or listen to a lot of books.

Jordan Reyes (46:19.763)

Yeah.

Jordan Reyes (46:23.559)

Yep.

Jordan Reyes (46:28.691)

Right.

Jordan Reyes (46:43.71)

Yeah, so it kind of always rotates. Like for me right now, I'm rereading Atomic Habits. That is a great book kind of to go over and how you can better yourself and get into those good habits and get rid of bad habits. So that's a really good book.

Chris Kiefer (46:52.929)

Hmm.

Jordan Reyes (47:04.106)

One of my other books that I really like, obviously from real estate perspective, is Rich Dad Poor Dad. That's a great book. I...

Another interesting book, I would say, if you are, because sometimes I like interesting stuff too, outside of real estate, although it kind of pertains a little bit, is called What Would the Rockefellers Do? And it's basically a book about infinite banking, so using life insurance and basically kind of setting up your life to mirror what other rich people do, because there's a lot of the stuff that we are taught in school is not about financial literacy.

is not about how to be wealthy. That's almost taboo, right? And so some of these things like how to buy a business, how to run a business, how to structure a business are applicable to literally everybody and they're all attainable. It's just we're not given that information in school. And so that's a good book to learn how they should think.

Chris Kiefer (47:44.703)

No.

Chris Kiefer (48:10.281)

What is that, when you say the infinite banking, I haven't heard of that, what is the, and you mentioned infinite banking and life insurance, what do you mean by that?

Jordan Reyes (48:19.622)

Yeah, so it's a way so there's a difference and the book goes into the difference between the Rockefellers and the Vanderbilts and basically what it says is like the Vanderbilts don't have any money.

they lost all their money after the third generation. Whereas the Rockefellers are able to maintain it and they still have a trust. And the reason it is, is set up that way is because of what they did at the beginning. Is they set up a family trust and now the trust owns everything. They use life insurance as basically their banking policy, which is a topic for debate. So there is that. So.

Chris Kiefer (48:57.19)

Just ethically, it works, but you're saying like, is that?

Jordan Reyes (49:00.37)

It works, but there's people that push it, and it's just not leveraged or done correctly. And so it can obviously not work in that scenario. And I don't claim to be an expert, but I got my life insurance certificate, if you will, just so that I could try to learn how to do it better. So.

Chris Kiefer (49:13.717)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (49:24.221)

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, the and are you saying or this is just out of curiosity because we have now and I have term life insurance, but are would this book recommend whole life also?

Jordan Reyes (49:33.162)

Mm-hmm.

Jordan Reyes (49:38.078)

it would exclusively recommend whole life or universal life and to get rid of your term life.

Chris Kiefer (49:42.229)

Really interesting.

And that's because I'm assuming that at some point with inheriting wealth, you're paying taxes, but you don't pay taxes on life insurance.

Jordan Reyes (49:55.394)

So it's a little bit more nuanced than that. So like.

Term life, you just pay it, there's no cash value, it just is what it is. With a kind of a life, universal life or whole life policy, you can build cash value, right? And with the cash value, so to tie it to real estate, say I want, I need $10,000 as a down payment. I can go to the life insurance company and say, hey, I want to take out a loan against my policy. Well, they give you the loan for the $10,000 and you can just pay it back. Same thing, you can do it with a car, you can do it with anything.

you pay it back and say you're just paying yourself back 5% interest. So that's what being your own bank and infinite banking is. That's what the concept is. Right. And so do you, it's a loan, right? It's not income. So you're taking a loan. So that policy continues to grow as if the money was still in there. Does that make sense? So that's kind of the premise behind it. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (50:37.691)

uh

Chris Kiefer (50:48.173)

Hmm. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (50:51.889)

Interesting. Love that. And what is your favorite movie?

Jordan Reyes (50:57.27)

Man, my favorite movie is probably just like an, it's like an old one, it's just The Shawshank Redemption. It's always, I've always loved that movie.

Chris Kiefer (51:03.829)

Ooh. You know that is the number one movie on IMDb.

Jordan Reyes (51:09.31)

Well, makes sense.

Chris Kiefer (51:11.353)

It's a good movie. I always look at IMDB ratings when people make recommendations. It is such a fantastic, it's just brilliantly made, just an awesome, awesome movie. Anyways, if someone listening wants to reach out and get in touch, what would you recommend? What's the best method of contact for you?

Jordan Reyes (51:25.504)

Yeah.

Jordan Reyes (51:35.838)

Yeah, I would say just reach out. If you're interested in anything real estate, would be on Instagram at the Jordan Reyes. And we'll update deals that we're doing, kind of see some day to day, fixing flips and anything. If you need any advice or looking at a deal, you can send it to me on there and I'm pretty active.

Chris Kiefer (51:58.557)

Or if you need motivation to get yourself into a nice bath, just go look and see that Jordan is doing it. So, awesome man. Well, super fun reconnecting. Glad to hear things are going well. And if you ever make it over to Coeur d'Alene on driving through or whatever, let me know. But yeah, super fun. Thanks for coming on and we'll be in touch.

Jordan Reyes (52:01.378)

There you go.

Jordan Reyes (52:05.013)

Yeah.

Jordan Reyes (52:20.798)

Yeah, sounds good. Thanks Chris.