Unlikely Mentors

Chris Kiefer (00:00.776)

Welcome back to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kiefer and I am here with Chris Roberts, who is the founder of Sterling Rhino Capital. I met Chris at the Spokane TEDx event. He was a speaker there. And the title of your talk was Unlikely Mentors, I think. Is that correct?

Chris Roberts (00:21.674)

Yeah, it was the secret to becoming yourself. Look for unlikely mentors. That was the official title.

Chris Kiefer (00:27.476)

Got it. Love it. So first of all, thank you for coming on Chris. And give us a brief rundown. What is Sterling Rhino Capital? But then more importantly, who is Chris Robertson? What are you about? What are you trying to do?

Chris Roberts (00:32.558)

Absolutely.

Chris Roberts (00:43.982)

Absolutely great. Sterling Rhino Capital is basically an equity firm, equity being we bring money in from investors all over the world and we buy multifamily apartment complexes with those funds. We partner with those investors and we buy or develop, build from the ground up, multifamily apartment complexes. Sterling Rhino Capital started a little bit later in my real estate career where I was

I had started in land, fix and flip, single families, renovations, rent, you know, renting single families, started a property management company. And then in order to scale, wanted to get up into the larger volume, was started to bring other people in with me. And now we buy and build 100 plus unit apartment complexes. So that's Sterling Rinal Capital.

Chris Kiefer (01:26.22)

And how many doors do you guys have so far?

Chris Roberts (01:29.278)

Well, so far, we've managed controlled a little over 1200 apartments. Right now, we're in development in various stages. We have four complexes across Denver and Phoenix that we're starting to break ground on. And I think those are going to total somewhere around 500 plus units luxury apartment complexes. So we've done like value add heavy renovate stuff, lower rent levels, like say five to $700, $800 a month rent, all the way up to luxury products. That's like say $3,000 a month rent.

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:59.052)

That's awesome. I have a good friend who, do you know Cornerstone Capital or Cornerstone Investments? I can't remember their official name in Coeur d'Alene here. Anthony Walker. Yeah, anyways, I'll have to connect you guys because he does the same thing. I'm not in real estate, but I find it very interesting. So where I want to start though is, so when you were 15, I believe, you were

Chris Roberts (02:09.294)

It sounds familiar.

Chris Roberts (02:18.44)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (02:26.541)

homeless and dropped out of high school, is that correct?

Chris Roberts (02:30.695)

That is correct.

Chris Kiefer (02:32.776)

So yeah, tell us about that and then we'll go from there.

Chris Roberts (02:36.394)

Yeah, so we go from luxury apartment complexes at $3,000 a month rent, to being homeless at 15. Yeah, so first I wanna clarify, homeless can be, I suppose homeless is interpreted in different ways by people, right? So when you see homeless, you think of all these tents on the side of the road and craziness and a lot of disarray. My life was a little bit different. To kind of fast forward this story.

When I was on my own at 15, it was because my mother moved me up from Southern California to Southern Oregon into a more rural environment because there were a lot of gangs and trouble and she just thought it'd be a better environment. But about six months later, she chose to go back to California and I didn't want to go. So for me to stay, I had to figure it out. Well, I went with a family friend of hers and that lasted literally one evening. I believe I referenced it actually in my TEDx talk. And then I was out on my own. And how was I out on my own? Well, I was out on my own.

I did sleep out on rest stop benches and park a few times, so that's technically homeless. But then fast forward, I found lots of different friends throughout the next few years where I would couch surf. Several of my friends were older, so they would have an apartment or something and say, you could stay on our couch. But it was random and it was constant. It was constant moving. So yeah, I was homeless technically, but it's not probably like what a lot of your listeners would think. Still a struggle at 15, 16, 17.

And I was in and out of school. I dropped out initially, went back, dropped out again, went back and probably completed maybe close to the end of 10th grade. And then eventually I just couldn't do it anymore. I was working like three odd jobs just to try to figure it out. So.

Chris Kiefer (04:15.148)

Did you ever go back and get, is it called a GED or something?

Chris Roberts (04:19.026)

Yeah, it's interesting. I was fortunate to find a very successful sales and marketing career and build a company. I wanted to volunteer as a reserve police officer at one point in my life. In order to do that, you had to have a GED. So at about 32 years old, I went back and got my GED. My wife has a master's degree. She's very well educated, always felt education was important. So I went back and got it. It was fine. As a result of getting the GED, I thought

Well, maybe I'll take a stab at college, right? Cause I hear all this stuff about college. So I went to this little community college and it's so funny. I'm so proud of this stupid stat. I got like a, I don't even know. It was like a 95 in my first class and like a, like my five credits or whatever. And just absolutely crushed every assignment. Did everything right. When school was not my strength as a kid, as you can imagine, right? With all the struggles I went through. And then I stopped because I'm like, well, I could put all this money and time into college, but I'm.

I'm doing extremely well. I have a really good career. I was actually looking into real estate at that time, uh, and it was working out great. So yes, to answer your question, I went back out my GD, took one class in college, got finished with that, became a reserve police officer for five years in the rest of this history.

Chris Kiefer (05:27.34)

That's awesome. I was gonna say, I feel like the, just the way that you learn, or the, so I got a engineering degree in college, and then I tried out engineering for six months, hated it, and then started a marketing company, and then did that for six years. Then I was the marketing director for a regional painting company, and then left that and went back to entrepreneurship. And I feel like my experience is just like, the, there is,

like college is good, like repetition at learning, you know, give you a lot of random things to learn that maybe you wouldn't encounter as an entrepreneur in your niche or whatever that is. But I'm curious, do you feel like there is, are you aware of any like deficiency that you have from a lack of college? Like, or what are the things that you're like, oh, I don't understand that, or I'm not good at that, or.

Chris Roberts (06:17.518)

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (06:23.493)

You're like asking questions when it seems like the majority of people get it.

Chris Roberts (06:28.358)

What's interesting about that question is even though I didn't go to college at a pretty young age, I absorbed massive amounts of content. Once I was around 18 and I found this job at a hot.car and we get into that later, it really changed my life. This unlikely mentor I call them got me into reading books. Even today, I think I put a stat out on social media. I've consumed over 70 books in the last three years, minimum 70 books.

Chris Kiefer (06:37.478)

Hmm.

Chris Roberts (06:57.606)

some multiple times I've read. So I feel like I have reading and listening, all the above podcasts and actual books. I mean, I'm talking like Elon Musk's recent autobiography, if you want to call it that, of like 28 hours, right? You know, Rockefeller's, Chase, man, I mean, lots of content. So to answer your question, yes, where the deficiency, I've identified it. The deficiency is in the writing. It's in a writing structure, you know, whether it be grammar, spelling, stuff like that.

Chris Kiefer (06:59.829)

reading or listening.

Okay. Yeah.

Chris Roberts (07:28.022)

If you put me in a room with Harvard graduates or whoever, I would crush it as it relates to business planning, execution. You asked me to write a business plan on anything. You want to talk politics, you want to talk history, you want to talk anything, you could probably put me in a room with a bunch of scholars. This is what I've been told by the way, this isn't me saying this. I would probably crush it. But if you asked me to write a paper, you would find the inefficiencies.

Chris Kiefer (07:49.214)

Yeah.

Chris Roberts (07:55.946)

Writing just wasn't my thing. Now, thank the Hudford G. Chat GPT these days because you can, right? Yeah, now don't get me wrong. I've written three books. I co-authored one, written two, USA Best Sellers, et cetera, because I'm a storyteller, right? And because I'm articulate, because I have a lot of life experience and education through all the books I've consumed over and over and over and over again, right? Many people thought I had a master's degree throughout the years, right? Employers.

Chris Kiefer (08:00.424)

I was gonna say, you came along just in time, yeah.

Chris Roberts (08:25.138)

You don't have a degree. So the point is though that there are deficiencies and I've identified them and I found ways to work around them and it has never held me back from succeeding. That's the good news, right? So I'm not saying people shouldn't go to college. There's such a need for that foundational education, but I found that a lot of the things I would have learned, I learned in life and it helped me to be successful in my opinion a lot quicker because I was sort of thrown in the pool if you will, right?

Chris Kiefer (08:52.644)

Mm, yeah, do you have kids? I was gonna say, the follow-up is I do, and I have thought, Natalie, my wife has always teased me, that I'm kind of anti-college. I shouldn't even say kind of, I just think that it's, unless my kids are gonna be doctors, lawyers, or engineers, don't go to college, it's just the biggest waste of money ever, and you can learn everything that you want online. However, there's this.

debate that we've had and our kids are young, so it's not like super front of mind right now. But I just feel like I relate to what you're saying in that when I, the best thing that ever happened to me was I got a degree and I left the engineering world at like 23 years old to do my own thing. Because all of a sudden, I'm just like, I gotta figure out how to bring in money. Like I'm doing my own business, so I have to go call people, cold calling, doing presentations, and the number of things

like rapidly, like the content intake, excuse me, the content intake I think is so critical because I remember there was this podcast called Mixergy and for the first four years of my business that I was starting, which again, I had never taken a business class, I had no idea what I was doing. And we grew this to six employees and we did great like video production and marketing work.

but we just, I didn't charge enough. And there's a bunch of other stuff. I just didn't know how to do it. So I had to spin that down when we wanted to start a family. But this Mixergy podcast was like my drug of like, knowing what other people that are quote unquote, successful went through and how I could relate or be like, oh, that's what happened to me yesterday. Or just like that motivation to keep going and keep learning and keep trying things. I feel like is.

There's the saying you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I also feel like somehow in there, or maybe it's one of those people, might be content. What is the content you're consuming because it's going to shape who you become in addition to the people that you hang out with.

Chris Roberts (11:00.202)

100% and Chris, just to build on that, again, I'm not against education. I think it's critically important. My wife is now a teacher at a college, right? And we talk about this all the time, the back and forth. She wants my business side to come into the class and explain the real world. And then she's teaching obviously the academic side of things, which is phenomenal. I want to put it in perspective for you. Let's think about this for a second. So throughout my life, I could have taken a path of college.

Maybe I got a better job because of the college, right? And the employers are looking for those college graduates, et cetera. I get in, I work my way up the ladder, and I retire with a modest retirement of the average American of $150,000 a year, let's say, or 100, sorry, $150,000 in retirement, whatever it is, and I live out my days. Through the way I did it, which was to really physically, literally, outwork everyone around me in the jobs that I had, because I had to.

because it was survival for me, it was serious, right? I had an opportunity to get closer to CEOs, millionaires, fly on jets with people because I was doing charity work, things like that, where they would invite me, right? These big companies to go do things because they noticed that I was putting in the extra work. And as a result, I had an opportunity to rub shoulders with them and learn from them, right? And then obviously they pulled me up along with them to some extent or taught me things because they knew I was open to that. I wasn't another cog in the wheel.

I was the exception, the linchpin, if you will, right, or whatever. I was the person that when you looked at a room full of 20 people who stood out, I was probably one, two, or three in that group because I tried to stand out. I tried to put in the extra work. So that helped me learn a lot quicker and a lot more than a lot of my counterparts. A lot of my friends were trying to stay under the radar, right? A lot of them had great degrees. They were kind of, I was like, I have nothing to lose. Here I am.

I'll show up early, I'll stay late, I'll do whatever it takes. Give me a chance, let's go, let's go, let's go. And it was that energy level that just drew him in.

Chris Kiefer (12:57.94)

Would you also, would you also with like, I'm just curious with just trying to stand out, obviously hard work showing up early, staying late, where is your personality like the class clown or like I'm gonna wear like loud colored shoes or like were you visually or like in your interactions standing out also or were you just like a quiet grinder?

Chris Roberts (13:21.742)

That's a good question. I think early on in life, I was even embarrassed to raise my hand in school because I always got the answers wrong. So I had a lot of insecurity, a lot of insecurity. As I became an adult and started learning more about the world and learning more about people, and as my unlikely mentor told me, you have this energy about you, you would be good at X. You need to get out of like working in the humdrum, let's call it like assembly line type of product. You need to be in front of people, right? So as I learned the strength of that, and that was actually a skill set,

I figured out how to cultivate that. So for example, no, I didn't wear loud stuff, but what I would do is when I started with a new company, let's say, and there was a bull pin full of sales reps, seniors and stuff, I would offer to get them coffee regularly. Hey man, you need anything? Who are you? I'm the new associate. Coffee, yeah, that'd be great, man. Okay, cool. And where are you from? I'm New York. Oh, you've been here 30 years, cool. Any advice you could give me? So I constantly was trying to help everyone. As a matter of fact, at one point,

I started doing PowerPoints and taking photography of showrooms. And I started doing things that I knew helped the entire division, right? While no one else was doing it. And there was value in that. And so all of a sudden everyone's seeing that I am bringing value to everyone. And then as a result, they're helping me, maybe give me a leg up, maybe give me a tip, uh, maybe when, you know, job or contract cuts are coming, I'm not going anywhere because I'm adding value to the entire division, which raises sales for everybody, right? So the point is.

All I was doing was taking massive action in a way that showed I was valuable and I was indispensable, even though in the back of my mind, I knew I was dispensable, right? In other words, I worked every day in every way as though someone was coming up to take my job because that's really the only skill set I had. I didn't have a master's degree. I didn't have the technical skills. I wasn't sure if I'd ever be in management at these companies, you know what I mean?

So I was like, well, I'm going to be the best soldier I can be. And as a result, I moved up and progressed and it's, it's really amazing. I mean, it's not as simple, obviously as just showing up early and late. You have to do things, right? You have to add value.

Chris Kiefer (15:24.356)

Yeah. Yep. I love that idea. The idea of, um, trying to, I don't know what, I guess I would ask you what, where does that come from for you? Is it driven by a fear of like, from like, was there something that I have this, uh, friend who's a business coach of ours, who's helped me identify some of the motivations that have gotten me to where I am come from middle school actually and being bullied in middle school.

Chris Roberts (15:51.874)

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (15:52.188)

You feel like there, have you ever taken the time to uncover like these core drivers? Is it from an event or a particular time when you were in grade school, middle school that has now just like, again, obviously it could be a negative experience, but it's this, there sounds like there's a, there was a fear, maybe that's going away of just like I could be homeless again. Like, is that it? Or is it something else? Or have you even thought about that?

Chris Roberts (16:19.574)

Well, yeah, I have thought about it quite a bit. Actually in the first book I wrote, it tells the story of my life, which actually identifies being jumped by gangs, right? Being out of my own, like a lot of struggles. Early on in my life, I have these stages of life like number two, number three, et cetera, first stage and the first and second halves of your life in your financial life. And it's interesting because the motivation was different when I was younger.

I was fearful, I was being jumped, I had to hide on my way to school because I would get beat up. I mean, it was different, right? And those motivated me definitely when I was younger to get out of the situation, which is why I didn't want to go back to Southern California at the time. As I became an adult and became more educated in the real world and how things work, the motivations changed. Money motivated me for a while, then it didn't. Then when I made a lot of money and I was able to retire very early, I was like, okay, well, now I want to give back. I want to teach people. I want to share this energy and enthusiasm I have.

with how I became something out of nothing basically, right? So it's definitely changed. I would say what I tell people oftentimes because not many people went through what I went through. It sounds like you either being picked on and stuff or like me, I was literally jumped and had the hell beat out of me many times. If they don't have that in their lives, they need to find something that motivates them or inspires them for long-term success in that way. In other words, motivation is temporary, inspiration is long-term.

So what is it in their life or what is it in someone else's life they could use as a way to prop them up and keep them moving and fighting, right? I'll tell you this. Um, most of what drove me was insecurity and fear early on. So it was, I'm not worthy. I'm not like these other people. Everyone knows my secret, right? They know I was homeless. They know I was on my own. They know I dropped out. They know I don't have an education. So I have to, I have to be somebody that is, is not that.

And that was a result of trying to do so much more for everyone than anyone was doing for me. But by default, that actually really helped me a lot because nobody knew my secret the whole time. Right. So anyways, I hope I hope that makes sense. Different parts of life, different motivation. Now it's now it's obviously changed dramatically. But to be honest with you, I feel like that was what drove me for quite a long time was like I'm not worthy and I don't want anyone to know my secret. I want to be better than that.

Chris Kiefer (18:25.772)

Totally.

Chris Roberts (18:40.466)

I want to be more than that, right?

Chris Kiefer (18:42.248)

Yeah, I love that other part you just, you mentioned a second ago about adding value and I feel like, I don't know what it is. I don't know if you've encountered this, but I think I'm, I don't know if I have the, I mean, honestly, I haven't had that many different jobs in like opportunities to do what you're saying because I basically had internship every year of college that got progressively better. And then I do remember one of the things that I, I went my,

in between junior and senior year, I was working at Lockheed Martin in their aerodynamic center of excellence. And it was there. They have a intern program every year and they bring in, I don't even know. It was like 50 people, 50 college students from all over the country. And I was the one college, one like these are like Georgia tech, like MIT, like big name colleges that get internships here. And I went to Carroll college in Montana.

And the only reason I got the job was because my sophomore year, I asked my professor, I want a really, really good internship. My senior year, what do I need to do and who should I be talking to, to get this? And he was like, Oh, this one former alumni Glenn, he now is the, you know, a president or something down at Lockheed. So you can, here's his contact. I'll introduce you. So as a sophomore, I basically reached out to this guy, Glenn, and it was like, Hey, what do I need to do to get an internship my junior year?

And he said, take these classes, do all this stuff, whatever. So I get down there and nobody knows where the hell Carroll College is and we're like eating lunch with all the interns. And I'm just like the guy that is, I feel like in a similar place, like, gosh, I hope they don't realize that I don't actually go to a real engineering school or whatever, you know, which is all just like, you know, self-imposed, like no one thinks stuff like that typically. But the point with that is that when I was there, it's crazy to me how many people would like,

they're just down there and they're coasting. It's like they got this job and they think that's the end. And when I was there, I made a spreadsheet and I started, like they told us on day one in an orientation, hey, you're welcome to go talk to anyone else in the company. Here's like the directory of everybody. So I'd sat down at the computer and looked in the directory and I would like just email other people that looked like they had high titles. And I'd say, hey, can we meet for coffee, you know, or in between at break or something. And I interviewed

Chris Kiefer (21:05.276)

I think it was 36 people over the course of this three month summer. And I was just like, trying to figure out what do they do? What motivated them? Why are they at Lockheed still? How long have they been there? Do they want to do something else? Cause I was like, I don't know what the hell I want to do. And anyways, long story short, I did get offered a job and I believe it was because of just like, maybe just trying to be so curious and ask everybody that would talk to me questions on how do I.

get a leg up or how do I get to your position? Or do you like this position? Would you have done something else? And one of those 30 people was like, I want him on my team, you know? But I feel like for some reason, that was just like a no brainer. Like, obviously you would do that. Like, why would you get in? You're around all these high class, high level engineers, and you're just gonna like eat by yourself or like not.

Chris Roberts (21:43.447)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (22:00.773)

Is it the fear of rejection? Of like, well what if they say, sorry I don't have time to talk to an intern? I don't know. But nobody else did that. I don't even know if people talked to one, let alone 30, you know?

Chris Roberts (22:09.838)

Right. Yeah. Oh, 100%. And I think it's interesting because later in life, I identified some of the things I did early. For example, when I do the TED Talk, there's one part of it where I say, identify, adopt, and engage, which relates to what you're saying. So it's like, identify one person who you have just outside your circle of influence who you have access to, but you don't really necessarily know them.

So you're identifying some people that like, man, I want to be like that. I want to learn from them. And then you adopt basically, you look at what they're doing. You try to learn from them. You try to help them so you can learn some of the skills that they have learned to help you to get to where they are. It could be like the number one salesperson or the top engineer, whatever. And then so you identify, you adopt, and then you engage. You get to know them really well. You become friends with them. You help them in any way you can. And as a result, and I did it with lots of people throughout my life.

But as a result, you gain such an education that you otherwise wouldn't because of being intimidated or feeling not worthy or just being lazy, right? Which is the number one thing, right? Oh yeah, that guy, he's arrogant or she's arrogant or whatever, no, maybe not. Maybe there's something to that person. So I always tried to look beyond the politics and the BS and the drama. And I always tried to figure out like, how do I become the most effective at?

whatever I'm doing, how do I do that? Well, there are a lot of people that have been way more effective than me, and it could be running a mile, or it could be trying to get into the police academy, or it could be all these things I've done in my life, climbing mountains, scuba diving, and I just break it down, and I say, okay, well, I'm gonna eliminate the fear, and I'm just gonna start asking questions, I'm just gonna show up, I'm just gonna smile, it's a big one, just smile and have energy. You wouldn't believe how much just me having energy and enthusiasm in my life, I've been told this many times by people, whether it be the guy that found me at the hot dog cart and completely changed my life.

or getting a corporate job where I made millions of dollars, like, come on, all because I stood out because I was smiling and I had energy and enthusiasm and I was genuine and I was approachable. That is, I didn't even know those were skills, but they are. And so the problem is you could have five master's degrees and a doctorate and be very monotone and that's fine, but.

Chris Roberts (24:24.83)

If you were outgoing and energetic and enthusiastic, and you go back 100,000 years ago, whenever people started walking this earth, maybe a million years ago, what was it? It was relationships, it was storytelling, it was gathering around the fire eventually. It was none of this stuff that we think is really important. So the point is I learned a lot throughout the years, and I was like, man, I'm gonna build upon these skills, and I'm gonna figure out how I can take all the stuff everyone else has learned, learn from them, and try to be even better than that, right?

Chris Kiefer (24:50.844)

That's, I love that. I want to go down this topic of mentors because I've heard a lot of different opinions on how to engage or have mentors requests, ask for mentorship, all that. But I do think you're, go ahead and tell the story of this hot dog cart and the guy who came up to you. I don't know if you shared his name before, but if you like, who is he? And how did this change your life?

Chris Roberts (25:20.554)

Yeah, I had a very important part of my life. I was around 18 years old, lost, just working, plugging away, trying to figure things out, just had no direction really. I was working at a hot dog cart, had a lot of people in line and this guy approaches me, I mean, literally like 50 people in line, crazy busy day, very successful hot dog cart. And he says, hey, you know, I want to hire you. He says, and I'm like, you hire me? Like, what are you talking about? Hire me for what? I'm like, do you sell knives? Like throw it at a door or something? Like, why would someone come to my...

hot dog cart and try to hire me. I worked for a guy who owned the hot dog cart. He said, no, you don't get it. You have a lot of energy, enthusiasm. He said, these are skills that I can't teach, which at the time I never even knew were skills. And he said, I need a guy like you because I can teach you how to do business plans, manage people, do all these things, but I can't teach your attitude. So I want you, X, Y, Z, right, whatever. So fast forward, he hires me.

and I go on to help him build a family fund center. It's amazing, like amazing job in this valley we lived in. It was like Disneyland coming to town, like every, it was a huge deal. So I was so proud to have that opportunity and I wasn't gonna let it go, right? So I got the job and he gave us a book, "'How to Win Friends and Influence People'." And he said,

Chris Kiefer (26:31.844)

Is this like a you or GM or something or just on the team of people?

Chris Roberts (26:34.934)

I became a super, he made me a supervisor with two other supervisors below the general manager and assistant manager. So he gave us some title, right? Paid a little more, gave us benefits, things I never had, right? And said, you know, I'm gonna teach you some things. And so, you know, he gives us books and he's holding us accountable. And I'm like, I couldn't get enough. I mean, he would pay us to go work at his property, cutting trees down and doing all these side jobs. And I was sometimes working a hundred plus hours a week, no exaggeration at the fund center and at his property and doing other things.

Chris Kiefer (26:40.515)

That's awesome.

Chris Roberts (27:04.59)

could not get enough of it because when I was with him, he would share things with me, right? And here's a retired CPA, millionaire, successful business guy, retired at 44 years old. Amazing, right? You can't get access to a guy like that generally, even if you work for him. Yeah, you have to stand out. You have to show that you're worthy of his time, right? So anyways, that's the story. He found me because of my attitude and my energy and he changed my life completely.

Chris Kiefer (27:19.592)

Anywhere. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (27:31.412)

So in the next part of mentorship, so you didn't, I guess I would say your idea of like find an unlikely mentor, it's not so like you didn't find him, he found you. And so I guess I'm saying, is it, yes, you can identify and do the identify, adopt, engage, but what about just like, it seems like step one is check your attitude.

Chris Roberts (27:59.298)

100%.

Chris Kiefer (27:59.332)

and be like a more outgoing, friendly, like smiley person, because someone might find you, right?

Chris Roberts (28:08.03)

Right, and actually the whole premise or idea or let's say through line of my talk in general is about putting the onus back on the person, the mentee who is seeking to change or grow. It's putting it on us. It used to be, hey, mentor, I'll hire you or my boss says Joe or Suzanne is going to mentor me because they're the senior in the department. But we all know based on personalities and experience levels and whatever that that's not always a good fit.

Like, okay, so what if we don't get along? Or what if she or he can't teach very well? They're good at what they do, but maybe they're not good teachers, right? They don't know me, they don't understand me. So what I'm trying to teach people is you need to take responsibility for drawing people in that will see you in a positive light. And if you do that, you will find the right people that will change your life through these unlikely mentors, what I call unlikely mentors. An example is with him.

I identified, now yeah, I drew him in with my attitude and my energy and enthusiasm, but I identified quickly. He was the kind of guy that would change my life, right? Because he was building something that was again, like a Disneyland, right? I mean, he identified something in me, it made me feel for the first time in my life, literally, that I had value to give. So the way he made me feel, because of the way I made him feel, changed both our lives. Does that make sense? And so you don't have to do it the way I did it, right? But I'm gonna give you an example. I was talking about it earlier.

Chris Kiefer (29:31.191)

Yeah.

Chris Roberts (29:36.19)

If you're at a job, why wouldn't you give 110% and not blame it on the rate you're getting paid, right? It's all relative. Why wouldn't you just work so hard because you should work hard, right? And because you wanna move ahead in life and learn as much as you can. And maybe you're not gonna be there forever, but you're gonna leave your mark on that company when you leave, right? So that perhaps somebody identifies you. And if not, you might find something in yourself.

I'll give you another quick example. When I went out to join the police academy, I trained so physically hard that I wanted to take number one in the mile and a half. I'm not a runner. There was 50 people running that mile and a half. I wanted to be number one. It's ridiculous. I'm not a runner. I took number two, second behind a military guy that was just incredibly, he was in incredible shape. Train, train, train. The testing, being tased, right? I volunteered to be first on everything.

because I wanted to take control of that fear. I didn't want it to control me. So my point is when you take responsibility for everything in your life, things just happen to you. Yes, there's some luck involved, but for the most part, opportunities will come your way. I didn't make all the money I've made, retire early, do all these things in my life, overcome all these personal challenges by just sitting back. I had to take control, I had to show up.

and I had to be part of the group and show that I was worthy of not only being part of the group, but perhaps leading the group. Just food for thought. Yeah, the identify, adopt, and engage was a way for me to show people. You obviously have to identify people that could change your life, but you also have to be the kind of person that they're going to notice.

Chris Kiefer (31:06.611)

Mmm.

Chris Kiefer (31:19.4)

Hmm. Yeah, totally. I'm thinking that the, I, for the longest time, my motivation and it's like, you know, you have, you probably have had this happen dozens of times in your life. You work, you reach this level of success that you thought you never would. And then you're like, okay, I made it. And then they last for a week, a month, a year depending, you know, and you're like, okay, I needed to have new goals. And then you work to a new level of success. And it's just that cycle, you know, but very early, I would say I'm, I'm in that of just like,

I never imagined that I could be at the place that I am when I'm 33. And I'm just like, okay, so now, um, what's next? And I'm, I know that it's not just like chase more dollars or things. It's like, I'm immediately like, how do I get more people to, to like, step out of their comfort zone in their safe job, be an entrepreneur, follow the thing that they've always been in the back of their mind that, which I believe is like that the inspiration or like that, the

divine like spark of like you're, you're meant to be different and unique and do something special. You don't just have to take the safe paycheck that you or you, I don't even think that a paycheck from somebody else isn't even that safe. I feel like the entrepreneurship is much safer, but the, my motivation is like, how do I get my friends, my family members, the people that I truly care about to take action? And I've, I've been like, I ask everybody this, so I'm curious, what is the,

I feel like it's probably easier to motivate someone that's in a really bad place because there's pain that they're running away from, which is good like activation energy. But for the people that have like a safe existence, so to speak, or like a comfortable life, how do you, um, do you have any tips on, or have you had experience of like trying to pull someone up to see or realize the potential that they have that they're not taking action on?

Chris Roberts (33:17.726)

Yeah, this is great. I've thought about this a lot throughout my life because I have friends and family and other colleagues that are in the same boat where they're just kind of plugging along. They want more, but they don't really understand how to get more, etc. So a couple of things. One, there's a few sayings in my life that I've heard that I really love. One of them is we evolved in this earth to survive, not to succeed. We evolved in this earth to survive, not to succeed. Whatever religious belief you have or Scientology or whatever it is.

It's true. You think about it, we're here to survive in every level, the way you think about things. Not to succeed, because if you're fed and you have a roof over your head, and maybe you're in a warm fuzzy relationship or whatever, it's like, yeah, things pretty good. What do I need? And the other thing is one by Eric Thomas that I love, and he talks about when you want success more than you want to breathe, you'll find success. So you're held underwater, you're fighting, you're fighting to get up to breathe because you're running out of air. And I'm a scuba diver, so I get this.

And once you burst out of that water, it's like, oh, I got it. Right. And so what I try to tell people is like, not everybody is going to succeed. Why? Because it's not natural for us to all just succeed, whether it's at life, financially, physically being in shape. You choose to eat the donut. You choose. You don't have to eat a donut. You can eat broccoli. Right. I mean, so there are pros and cons to both. Right. Um, so what I tell people is first identify.

Why is it that you are where you are? For example, time management is a big one. I talk to friends all the time about this. I don't have any time, really? Gosh, I'm up at 5.30 every day at least. I sleep about seven hours a night and I watch very little TV. I'm at the gym at least two hours a day, every single day, right? And I pay myself first, my body, my mind, my finances. And then I go about my day and prioritize. And there's still lots of time. Now, whether I had kids, didn't have kids, or your kids are out of the house or whatever.

can make all the excuses in the world, but manage that time. And then say, with some of the time that I found, because you have it, you're just not allocating it properly, what can I do to progress in life? You mentioned something about, I don't remember what it was earlier, but you were talking about doing things. For me, I always want to challenge myself. So I was afraid of heights. I went with a buddy and he had me rappelling off rocks, which was terrifying. And eventually I'm climbing 15,000 foot mountain peaks and crossing crevasses, right?

Chris Roberts (35:42.61)

I had a terrible scuba diving event, worked through the fear and the pain and achieved that accomplishment. Books, written three of them. Speaking on stage, I was terrified, became a speaker. What I'm saying is I identified those things along the way while I was working in corporate America because I wasn't getting what I needed out of corporate America. I wasn't being fulfilled. It wasn't rewarding, like you said. I made a bunch of money. It's like, what now? Well, I wanna help people. I wanna do different things. I wanna be on stages, et cetera. So you have to identify how you manage your time. You have to prioritize your life.

And then you have to do things that challenge you and that are stimulating. For example, I created multiple streams of income as well. So while I was working in corporate America, I'm like, this is great, I'm making money, but I can't really make a lot more than I'm making, even though it's good. So I'm gonna start getting into real estate, where I'm gonna write some books, or I'm gonna start a little side gig over here and pick up another line or something. So the bottom line is diversify, stay busy.

but make sure you're allocating your time in an efficient way. And that's a process, right? It starts from the foundation. Like I said, I usually identify with people. By the way, I don't sell programs or anything. This is just friends and family and colleagues and investors I talk to all the time. But I try to break down, where's the inefficiency? And we start from the ground up, which is usually time management. And then we start going in through there.

Chris Kiefer (36:56.116)

Hmm. I love that. Yeah. I think that, um, the idea of, uh, I've actually thought as, as I have made, um, and continue, like you just level up an income and you're making more, there's like a, right now, my biggest fear is that I'm not like, I have to be funneling. I don't know if it's like a percentage, like maybe my engineering mind wants like a concrete percentage of like,

I need to continue to put money into these other assets because you can only get paid so much for your time, right? You like maybe the certain people can get a million dollars an hour or whatever, but even then it's just like the real wealth doesn't come from like an activity or a product or a service or something. It usually comes from some other like real estate or intellectual property or something else.

licensing, you know, what, what experience do you have in? Well, I guess I would say what I think is kind of scrapping that and going to a different topic. You mentioned at the beginning that you were working hard, you're, you're in some sales roles. What was your identity in this, in your career of like, who are you? If someone was like, what do you do? Or what are you going to do?

Were you always or very early on after this, um, mentor picked you up at the hot dog stand, were you, well did you have the idea of like, I am a salesperson or were you like a, did you identify as an entrepreneur or like as a leader? What was like the core identity of Chris?

Chris Roberts (38:38.722)

Well, originally I was just plugging along and surviving. It was my unlikely mentor that actually identified I should get into a sales role. So three years after working for him, he said to me one day, you're wasting your time here. He said, no offense, I'd have you here forever, but you need to go get a sales career started. He said, because you have that personality. I was like, what? What do I sell? He goes, just go find something. And so as I moved along, I found a job at a furniture store, a warehouse. I started working my way up.

eventually became an independent sales rep. So I was a contractor, an independent guy, an entrepreneur. I was running my own business and eventually picked up more lines and did all these things. So I was a sales and marketing guy making good money, commission, right? Commission, but what was very, very lucrative eventually, right? But as a result, I realized, okay, there's a ceiling here. I hire people under me. We're working, we're selling furniture wholesale, whatever. So I started picking up a finance line, a furniture protection plan line, and I grew those from the ground up and pretty soon.

I've got a $10 million finance line, which was zero when I started. And my furniture line was up to $30 million. So these are annual numbers that you're getting paid commission on. And so, and I'm doing all of that and grinding. And then I'm like, well, I need to put my money somewhere. I need tax shelters. So I'm in the stock market. That's not very good. So I started learning about real estate. I gobbled up five or six books within like three months. And then I'm like, okay, this is how I buy my first piece of property. And then it spearheaded from there and I just went crazy. So.

I think I was a sales guy because someone told me I was a sales guy. I didn't know I was, right? And that's what propelled me into that very lucrative career.

Chris Kiefer (40:10.048)

The first property that you bought, was it multifamily or like a duplex or did you, what was the first purchase you made?

Chris Roberts (40:17.45)

First purchase was my own home, and then I bought a few pieces of land at the coast, and then I flipped them nine months later and made $12,000. Then I bought my first foreclosed property, and then I started buying a foreclosed property like every six to nine months. Cheap properties, $100,000, I put $20,000 down in rough markets where nobody wanted to go, but the rents were about the same as they were in hiring markets. Then I would fix them up, a little money down, rent them for a few years, sell them. I had like a dozen at one point.

and then started a property management company to run them because it was inefficient to hire because it was too expensive and they didn't do a very good job anyway. So I started my own company. And so I became an entrepreneur pretty early on because I was an independent sales rep as an entrepreneur, as a contractor. And then I had the freedom to go and start all these other businesses because I had all the time in the world driving while I was going between locations. So yeah.

Chris Kiefer (41:08.944)

Yeah, that's awesome. The other thing that you said that is making me think, I'm projecting based on what you laid out so far, but would you agree, or can you think of a better way to motivate someone to, and I almost feel like motivate someone is the wrong word, because I don't think that you can really motivate people. It's an internal thing. But potentially the best way to get someone to take action and pursue something

in their life that they say they want. Obviously if someone doesn't want anything, then good luck, they're comfortable. But when people vocalize like, oh, I wish I could do that, or they're looking at these other people and they want that, it sounds like what I would say is the best way would be to invite them to do uncomfortable things. Because then that's the, is that like the gateway drug, so to speak, of like, hey, dude, let's do this thing that you think is scary.

Chris Roberts (41:56.127)

Oh yeah.

Chris Kiefer (42:03.668)

Cause I'm doing it and I think it's scary. You want to come with me? And then it's like, do you think that potentially, because I actually asked somebody, a speaker, Rex, I'm forgetting his name. He's from Utah, but he said, when I asked the same question I just asked you, how do I get my friends and family to like be inspired and do the thing? He said, what if they don't? Like, what if you, like you have to be okay with

you can't make someone want something or do something that they don't want to do. Which I was like, that's, I agree with that. I have to be okay with it, but it still is like, but I'm still like, I want to, it would be awesome to be good at having the skill of getting people to move and take action. And based on what you're saying, I would say, it seems like doing uncomfortable things is potentially the way to be like, Oh, I did that thing. I took a cold shower.

Like, oh, I ran a marathon, maybe I could start a business. Is there a better way than that to get people to do that?

Chris Roberts (43:11.39)

Yeah, I think it goes back to one, what inspires you, whatever it is, because again, motivation is temporary, inspiration is long-term. So it's like, what inspires you? Like you ask your cousin or your wife or whoever, like, what do you like to do? I like people, okay, cool. And you start to identify that, because you're right, it's not always about money, it's not always about climbing a mountain or winning an award or getting a degree, it can be something else that motivates them. And so you just say, well, are you feeling down because you don't have time to allocate to that? Like, so it sounds like you have something that really,

you would love to do or that drives you, but you feel like you don't have a way to ever do it or like it's not for you or you have the kids or you have whatever. So oftentimes with people, I just ask them like, do you want more out of life or are you pretty content? And if someone says, yeah, I want more out of life. Okay, great. Well, what is it that you would love to do? What gets your juices flowing? Right? Like for me, there were things that got my juices flowing. Things that nagged me were that I was afraid of heights, things that nag me that scuba diving.

issue I had scared the hell out of me. And so I never went back. And 10 years later, it was still bothering me. So one day, you know, and so my point is there, you can use the negatives to inspire you to do things, right? You can use the things that you're being held back from doing to inspire you to do things, but you got to identify what, what is it that you want out of life? It's not the same for everybody, right? Whether you go back to fungus or dinosaurs or Neanderthals, right? It was about survival and not a lot of people made it. Not a lot of things made it. It was like the strong survived, right?

That's fine. But I think with most of us, we have something that inspires us. And it's a matter of tapping into what that is and then managing our time and figuring out how to go after it. For me, I wanted to put food on the table. I wanted a place to live. I wanted confidence. So I did everything I could to get that when I was younger. As I became older, I wanted money. I knew money was the key to freedom for me, my midlife. Once I made a lot of money, I realized...

Wow, money gives you a lot of freedom. It's great, but it certainly doesn't give you happiness. I realized like, there's still a lot of stuff I want to do. Money doesn't make me tick because I live below my means. So when you have enough money, you're like, okay, well, that's great, but I need something else. And so for me, what gets me up every day is there's still more work to do. Work being helping people, growing my businesses, mentoring my employees, et cetera, right? And so I'm always trying to think of things that can inspire me and motivate me to keep moving forward

Chris Roberts (45:35.178)

Everything gets old quickly. You mentioned it. A satisfied need no longer motivates. As soon as you have something, it becomes old. I made more money, I bought the car, I got the girl of my dreams. That's why you have to work at relationships, right? Because after a while, it's beyond just the beauty, right? Or whatever, and the warm and fuzzies and the butterflies, it's now real life. That's why a lot of relationships don't work. They don't look beyond the beauty. It's like, oh, I'm tired now. No, you don't do this anymore. You used to do that. No, you gotta look at the person.

Chris Kiefer (45:48.213)

Hmm.

Chris Roberts (46:04.566)

You got to value who they are and work on that relationship every day to make it work. Right. So, um, I know that was a lot of information, but that's, that's sort of how I feel that not everybody's going to be inspired, motivated. They're, they're not all. So you just need to help them if you can identify what does, and then put pieces in place to help them.

Chris Kiefer (46:22.604)

And so you're the, I'm gonna try and put this more formulaic, but it's, I love the question of, do you feel like you want more out of life or are you pretty content? I would say 90% of people probably would say more out of life, but there could be people that are content. And then the next thing is when they identify that, then it's like, okay, what is the, like, do you feel like you're not, you don't have enough time to do it, like you said, and trying to help them with managing, how could I carve out an hour, a week, or a month to do that thing?

and then help them start going down that path. And I would say you had said that doing uncomfortable things or facing your fears is the key to success. And so would you also include in that, that like, I feel like obviously you could tell someone do uncomfortable things or do the thing that's not fun, but do you feel like the invitation or like the, what are really great, easily accessible things? Like I'm thinking cold showers.

or cold plunges. Those are the two easiest for me.

Chris Roberts (47:21.794)

Yeah, let me give you a really good example. It's dangling carrots and we all have to do it for ourselves. A good buddy of mine was out of shape and I was in really good shape at the time. I said, man, I've been eating these certain vitamins. I've been taking these shakes, these shakes I make with blueberries and spinach and all these things. I said, it's amazing how the energy levels I have. I've really gone up another level. I know I had energy before, but I said...

I feel great. I'm waking up early. I'm in the gym two hours a day. I'm stronger than I've ever been. And I'm in my late forties, you know, whatever. And he's like, wow. And I go, let me ask you, I go, I know you've mentioned me have back issue. You have this, that I go, how do you feel today? He's like, I feel like crap. You know, I have this, that and that. I go, well, let me ask you, I go, if you felt better than you ever felt in your life, like what would that be like? Like tell me like how you, he goes, oh man, you know, so we started talking. And I go, well, why don't, why don't you, I go, all you got to do is just dedicate the time, get in the gym. I go, drink some shake, like, you

And stay accountable, stay focused. Feel like what it would feel like when you were 19, 20, 25 years old. Like what, like put that in your head, right? So we started talking throughout a couple of weeks and it's crazy, man. Like I'm just giving an example. He called me, he goes, dude, I've lost 25 pounds. I'm in the gym every day, my golf game. He, by the way, he's like a scratch golfer. He's like, my golf game is improving. He's like, it's amazing what those few changes in my life did.

And I just didn't know what to do first, because at first you just stop eating. And that doesn't work. You have to have a whole lifestyle change, right? You have to put foods in you that are good, all these things. So my point is, I dangled a carrot with him because he's a friend, I love him, right? To say, look, I need to try to help you feel what it's gonna feel like, right? When you make this commitment. And he knows, cause he was in shape and he did it. Now I could give you a dozen examples like that outside of just weight loss and stuff, whether it be overcoming fears, climbing,

Chris Kiefer (49:03.446)

Hmm.

Chris Roberts (49:14.998)

getting a job, whatever. But it's about figuring out how you plant a seed in someone's mind or dangle a carrot and then getting them to take action and then them holding themselves accountable to that action. And it's not the same for everybody, which is why diets don't work, right? You have to figure out what am I comfortable eating? How much time can I put in the gym? Cardio versus weights versus diet, et cetera. And then once you kind of figure out your comfort zone, you can excel. So it's dynamic, but it's not that complicated. I hope that makes sense.

There's a lot to it, but it's really not that complicated. Um, yeah. So overcoming fears is big. One of his fears was I can't change. I'm busy. I'm on the road. I got, I'm like, no, you don't have to do all that. I'm going to give you a couple of simple things you can do and it'll change everything if you just try it. And he tried it and he's like, I can't believe it. Right. So I did the same thing for myself. Just change a couple of small things and they start adding up. You start to ingrain those new habits.

Chris Kiefer (49:48.157)

Love that.

Chris Kiefer (50:04.368)

Yeah, I love that. So moving to some wrap up questions here. What are the three book recommendations that you have?

Chris Roberts (50:14.518)

Well, my all-time favorite, which really started my entire life was How to Win Friends and Influence People. It's kind of a business book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. And again, there are probably hundreds of books in my repertoire. Many are stacked behind me. But the next one would be Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So How to Win Friends and Influence People, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and then The Millionaire Mind.

There's actually a trilogy of millionaire books, but The Millionaire Mind comes to mind. I can't remember the name of the author, but if you look it up, you'll find it. It's a really popular book. Two of them are more about life and structure and systems and continuous improvement, relationships and things like that. The other is more about finances because nobody ever taught me anything about finances. But now I've read dozens and dozens of books on those topics.

Chris Kiefer (51:06.524)

Is it the, I'm finding two different ones here, the Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley, or is it the Secret of the Millionaire Mind by Harv Eker?

Chris Roberts (51:15.634)

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be let me pull it for you. Hold on.

Chris Roberts (51:24.322)

Dave Jenks and Jay Papasan. Well, you probably can't see that right, but.

Chris Kiefer (51:29.6)

Dave, is it, does it say Gary Keller at the bottom or that's just the forward?

Chris Roberts (51:33.578)

It does. It does say Gary Keller.

Chris Kiefer (51:37.312)

Dave, how do you spell the last name? Jinx.

Chris Roberts (51:37.558)

That's just J-E-N-K-F and J-Papasan.

Chris Kiefer (51:43.744)

Janks, okay.

Chris Roberts (51:49.442)

There are actually several of those millionaire books. Stanley Danko is another one, The Millionaire Next Door. So I've got dozens of those books, right? But there were some that were more pivotal than others. All it does is set a financial foundation, right? I mean, there's obviously Rich Dad Poor Dad, there's tons of them. But that helps get my mind right around the power of the dollar, right? And about how important it is to pay yourself first and be efficient and not have credit card debt and things of that sort. So...

Chris Kiefer (52:13.152)

Mmm.

Chris Roberts (52:19.659)

There are lots of them but you got to put some time into learning about your financial future so that is something I would really prioritize in your life especially if you're a young person.

Chris Kiefer (52:28.66)

That's awesome. And favorite movie.

Chris Roberts (52:32.61)

Oh, that's a great question. I like a lot of movies. I don't know if I really have a favorite, but if I had to give you a favorite, I would say it's probably...

Probably, gosh, I have so many of them.

Chris Roberts (52:54.146)

I don't even know if I could give you a favorite. There's so many running through my head.

Chris Kiefer (52:57.122)

If it helps, what I love is the ones that are less well-known. Obviously you can give me a popular one, but there's one that's like, oh, this is one that many people haven't seen, if you have one of those.

Chris Roberts (53:09.662)

Yeah, well, I don't watch a ton of movies now. A lot of these were probably older movies, but I like more technical movies that are hard to figure out. So gosh, I'm just trying to think of titles. I'll be honest with you, I don't watch a lot of movies today. So I'm trying to think back about some of the movies I watched that I really liked.

Chris Kiefer (53:26.876)

You're like an Italian job or law abiding citizen or, um, okay.

Chris Roberts (53:30.938)

Yeah, or like Rush or like Ocean's Eleven, movies like that get you thinking, like creative movies, not sci-fi stuff, but like real storytelling kind of stuff. But yeah, I really don't have favorite movies because I don't watch a lot of movies.

Chris Kiefer (53:48.916)

Yeah.

Rush I haven't seen, is that a racing one?

Chris Roberts (53:55.066)

No, it's a pull it up real quick. It's a, I think it's got Al Pacino in it.

Chris Roberts (54:06.51)

See.

Chris Kiefer (54:10.532)

Oh, 1991, Jason Patrick, is that it?

Chris Roberts (54:10.946)

I have to get.

Yeah, I think so. I'll have to get it to you.

Chris Kiefer (54:19.517)

Is it a 90s movie?

Chris Roberts (54:22.267)

I believe so. Yep.

Chris Kiefer (54:26.128)

Yeah. Um, anyways, yeah. The reason I always ask the movie question is because I don't have a ton of time to watch movies either. But when I watch movies, I'm like, I better be a freaking good movie, you know? So I always like to know those, uh, nuggets that people are like, Oh yeah, I bet you have never seen this one.

Chris Roberts (54:33.271)

Yeah.

Chris Roberts (54:37.898)

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Roberts (54:43.622)

Yeah, no, it's all good. I'm just not a big movie guy. So, um...

Chris Roberts (54:51.406)

Sorry, trying to figure out my screens now.

Chris Roberts (54:57.686)

Where are you?

There you are. Okay, sorry. I'm sure you can edit that. All right.

Chris Kiefer (55:04.184)

Yeah, yeah, we'll take that out. And then last question is, if people wanna get in touch, what's your preferred method of contact?

Chris Roberts (55:13.61)

My preferred method of contact would be just to go to our Sterling Rhino Capital website. You can sign up for our investor club. We don't solicit you or anything, but you can sign up and get ahold of me there. You could also find me at admin at chrisdroberts.com. So if you just want to shoot an email off because you have a question about TED Talk, books, things like that, you can find me at admin at chrisdroberts.com. That's an email. Or just go to the Chris D Roberts website.

Chris Kiefer (55:40.844)

Awesome. Well, Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. I loved so many things you're saying resonate with me and yeah, it was just a good conversation. I appreciate it.

Chris Roberts (55:52.118)

Cool. Yeah, thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time and it's been great talking to you.