Scaling with Subcontractors The Fast Path to Growth w Ty Brown

Chris Kiefer (00:00.492)

Is that right? But but how did you find Boolean?

Ty Brown (00:01.322)

I think your wife, so I spoke to her about Nolan. Kevin, Kevin Nolan brought it up. He was speaking at a, we had during my first ascent there, he was speaking at a lunch kind of marketing group. And I've learned about it then. And on my way to the airport, I'm looking it up and send a request out to your wife and chatted about it. Yes.

Chris Kiefer (00:07.864)

Kevin North

Chris Kiefer (00:25.676)

And that was for the review software specifically. Yeah, yeah, okay. Awesome. Welcome back to another episode of The Pursuit of Purpose. My name is Chris Kiefer, and I am here with Ty Brown from Mountain West Painting. Ty, thank you so much for being generous with your time and coming on today.

Ty Brown (00:44.334)

Thank you, Chris.

Chris Kiefer (00:45.988)

And what I am very, very excited about today is to meet someone like Ty, who is the founder and owner, but he also is, I would say, of all the painting company people that I've met, he resonates the most with the way that I think, which therefore is the best way of thinking, because that's why I think this way, clearly. And that is just trying to build a highly efficient painting company and...

rather than being focused on, you know, the vanity metric of revenue or just scaling or getting bigger, he has, like, if I'm not incorrect, single-handedly or near single-handedly implemented quite a few impressive systems, software solutions to manage this company. We can get into revenue or any of those things that you want to, but that's what we're gonna be talking about today. But first, I would be very...

appreciative tie. If you could give us like the two to three minute or longer if it's necessary, backstory of how did, well first of all what was your skill set, what did you do for most of your career, and how in the world did you end up in painting running this company that you have now?

Ty Brown (02:01.23)

So my background is in retail management, executive retail management, about 20 years. So I worked for a retail company, grew them from a wholesaler to a retailer. When I first started, they had one retail, brick and mortar store, grew them to about 35 throughout North America, Hawaii, Costa Rica, Mexico, some licensed stores. Really was attached to the construction side of things.

been hands-on my whole life, painted when I was younger. That's kind of my background, more of the business background than the painting, not much on that side, but really just got tired of kind of going through the nine to five and wanting to get out into trades and did some investigation on where I wanted to go and what trade I would want to, you know, was looking towards and I ended up landing on painting due to...

my background I had in painting, the little bit I had a year, two summers, going through school. And just, you know, some of the stories out there, personal experience I had with painting contractors, painting my home and with some of my, some friends out there. I feel like the bar was set really low and I knew I could come in and make an impact on it.

Chris Kiefer (03:18.145)

And so what is the you start this business Why did you why did you leave the retail space?

Ty Brown (03:29.934)

So I was diagnosed with cancer in August of 2020. That is what made me get into it. At that point, a month prior to that, I had started looking into it. I was getting tired of the grind. But from that day on, it changed my mindset, walking out to, after hearing that news, walking out to my car and seeing my two and four-year-old daughter there.

said, that's it, I'm not going back to work anymore. I need freedom. I need the freedom to take them to school every day. I need to pick them up every day. You know, when you're out there grinding it out, and you know, you see them a half hour in the morning, you know, you work a long day, you come and get an hour with them at night. That just wasn't gonna.

Chris Kiefer (04:16.576)

Hmm. And so your this, cause this is something, this topic, and I knew that from when we talked previously, but what was the, like something that I am so passionate about, in fact, I have been doing a lot of work on my own personal mission, and I finally settled on my mission in life is to champion the relentless pursuit of a purposeful life.

And to me, I can go into very detail why that matters to me. But one of the reasons that I do this podcast and the question I get asked all the time is like, what in the world does this have to do with your automation business? And the truth is that it really doesn't have anything to do with automation at all. It's just fulfilling this desire that I have for deep, meaningful conversation with people that are entrepreneurial minded, whether or not they are entrepreneurs. But I'm very...

interested around this idea of the thing that causes people to act because many people have dreams and visions of starting a business or um you know doing the thing that they're like that everyone has at least i think and i i've asked people this and everyone keeps saying yes they know what i'm talking about but everyone has that man it would be crazy if i you know started this thing that i should

be so cool or we should travel or I should go and take my kids camping to every state in the country or whatever the thing is there are these crazy ideas that we have and I believe that they're divinely inspired ideas that we need to act on and go pursue and live our life like that but for whatever reason people get frozen in these jobs that we're trapped in and granted some people some people's jobs serve them well and there's no need for everyone to be an entrepreneur but I feel like

more people have the potential and the capacity to be an entrepreneur than they realize. And so the last thing I'll say before I hand this back off to you, just so you can understand where I'm coming from, but my dad passed away from cancer when I was a junior in college. And that was now 12, yeah, 12 years ago that happened. And I would say that for me, I felt like it wasn't all, it wasn't like this realization happened the moment that he died.

Chris Kiefer (06:34.636)

But over the course of the next one to two years of college, not having a dad anymore, I have told people since that I feel like I matured 10 to 15 years in the course of two years, if that makes sense. All the things that I was doing, even the career that I was on, I wanted to go to Lockheed Martin and develop missiles and be an aerospace engineer. And all of a sudden I was like, I think I'm gonna go home and be with my younger brother who was in middle school at the time and just be close so I can go to his games and you know.

I just like my whole, everything that was important shifted. So anyways, the reason I'm giving that context is because I'm curious and obviously we can go into the level of conversation that you feel comfortable sharing. But I think that this is your message. I don't know how often you talk to people about this, is so powerful because hopefully it doesn't take cancer or losing a loved one for someone to decide to pursue their dreams. But I'm curious in your case.

how have you reflected on that moment or that time in your life? And what advice do you feel inspired to give to people that are debating whether or not they should go pursue that thing?

Ty Brown (07:47.638)

Yeah, so I started my first business when I was 19. I started a business back then. I was working for a sign painter, doing hand sign painting. And then the digital kind of vinyl side of it came out when it kind of advanced into plotting and die cut. I got into that business and sold it. Looking back at that now, then I got into kind of where I was into retail.

I'm not sure why I didn't get right back into business because looking at where I am now, why didn't I do this 20 years ago? Why did I wait? And I think the biggest thing is just making that leap and again, committing to do it. You know, and it did take for me to walk out of the doctor that day and say, I'm doing it. And it was tough. This was in the middle of COVID. You know, people tell me you're crazy. You know, it's a tough time to do it. You know, obviously I was in bed for a long time.

But when I got out on the other side, I was just committed to doing it. And really just, that's the big thing, just making that leap. A lot of people get kind of hesitant on that. And I read a book back in the day, Rich Dad Poor Dad, not sure if you're familiar with that book. But that's all about just getting out there, making that commitment and doing it. You can sit around and talk about it, but you just need to commit and do it.

Chris Kiefer (09:01.475)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (09:11.756)

Hmm. So what would you say to someone that is thinking like what's holding most people back in your experience from that idea for a business? And it doesn't always have to be a business, but maybe it's the trip that they've always wanted to go on and they're delaying, they're delaying, they're delaying. What is the advice that you would give to someone that is hesitating and making that decision to make the leap?

Ty Brown (09:33.994)

I think a lot of that hesitation is caused from just being comfortable where you are. Obviously starting a business takes a lot of work. It's not easy. So, you know, I think a lot of people shy away from it due to the fact. It is a lot of work to get it going, but once you're in it and you build that passion for it, you know, it's just, to me, there's no other way. I wouldn't, you know, I'm not going back, you know. I'm definitely in this. I'm passionate about the industry.

I'm really deeply involved and yeah, I'm fully committed. And like I said, it took that for me to commit, but you're gonna have your ups and downs. And I think the biggest thing is really just kind of getting a good network group, which I was able to do off the bat and really kind of getting that foundation of people surrounding me to avoid some of those big mistakes that you may make early on.

Chris Kiefer (10:26.324)

And is this the Nolan group that you're in? Or is it a different group?

Ty Brown (10:29.446)

I recently started with the Nolan group. Yeah, initially I started with a group called Painting Business Pro. Eric Barstow, he's out of Fort Collins. I was with him. And then obviously the PCA. I've done a ton of connections through the PCA that have helped me out dramatically.

Chris Kiefer (10:34.572)

Okay.

Chris Kiefer (10:44.64)

Awesome. So one thing that resonated strongly with me the first time I chatted with you was you said something along the lines of, everyone's looking for this perfect software and you realize now that it doesn't exist. And I would add to that, that's more or less what you said, that any software that you're choosing between or softwares that you kind of are debating between, it's all a matter of trade-offs.

What's the priority? Make the list of these are the must haves, these are the nice to haves, you know, whatever. But understand that you, they're like any software, well actually I'm not gonna say anything else, I'm just gonna leave that and give it over to you to say, what do you wanna add to that? And how has that mindset evolved and developed and gotten you to where you are now?

Ty Brown (11:35.018)

Yeah, so with my lack of painting experience, a little bit I did have when I was younger, I started with production rights straight away. So I had my production rates and I was handwriting estimates to start, right? That was just my launch my first year. My second year really was kind of okay. That was when I was going through my treatment, my chemo treatment, which was in 2020, right? So I got a, yeah, I had a couple months, you know, under my belt there, I was...

Chris Kiefer (11:51.541)

And what year was this?

Chris Kiefer (11:57.78)

Okay, 2020 starts us.

Ty Brown (12:03.278)

It was crazy, I remember going to jobs and I had to, you know, I couldn't pick anything up from going through surgeries and stuff. It was a rough time, but eventually I went down and then I got my feet back on the ground in August of 2021. That's kind of when I got, sorry, April of 2021. That's when I got kind of back out there, started estimating and started working again. At that point is then I started kind of putting the feelers out there for estimating softwares, kind of the way I'm gonna manage my production.

really kind of developing my tech stack. So that first year, I drove myself crazy because there's always these shiny objects, I'm switching, I wanna try this, I wanna try that. And I kept going on and trying these new softwares and eventually like, they all kind of do the same things. It's kind of what works best for you and what you can adapt to your systems you have in place. So I went through a bunch, end up settling on where I am now which was kind of almost where I started.

but it can drive you crazy and it's a major distraction and it takes a lot of time. So I hear it a lot out there. I see it on Facebook groups, you know, the chatter out there, everyone's looking for this ultimate tool that just I feel doesn't exist. Everyone wants an all-in-one, right? So, you know, I have my opinions on an all-in-one. You know, I think they're okay if you're kind of smaller, but once you get, once you're larger and start to scale, I think things need to kind of...

kind of separate a bit.

Chris Kiefer (13:32.964)

Hmm. And so, if I'm not mistaken, how long was it just you? Is it still just you? And where are you at now? I don't know if you can, if you want to share revenue numbers. I just feel like it's good for context, for people listening. But yeah, how many people are in the business now and how long did you go when it was just you?

Ty Brown (13:57.25)

Well, I run a 100% subcontractor model at the moment. I did hire my first employee this year, which was a project manager. So he started in May of this year. So he's been great, really took a lot off my back, really kind of slowed me down a lot on the sales side, was able to really kind of hone in and working on that sales process and obviously my sales rate. But we're gonna do this year, we're gonna hit 1.

1.5 in our second full year.

Chris Kiefer (14:29.236)

And so the, just you and then you hire as project manager, you have all subs. How, like, what was the decision to do the all subs? And I'm sure, this wasn't random, I'm sure you considered having W2 employees, but I'm very intrigued by this idea because my assumption is that it was driven from a little bit of the analysis of just long-term profitability. You know, what...

the efficiency of your operation and what your strengths are. Like, tell me the decision of like, I'm gonna do this for X amount of time and then like, you know, this is the way I'm gonna scale. Because I should say, my assumption in talking to people is that many people assume that when they start a business, they just have to take on all this overhead immediately. And there's other ways to do it.

Ty Brown (15:22.334)

Yeah, and that was the thing to get off the ground quickly. Obviously with some mentors I was working with at the time, the subcontractor model was just the easiest, right? So you can get to where you want to be very quickly. I'm not worried about producing jobs. That's one great thing about subs is, and I had this conversation with my coach at Nolan. He's like, are you worried about producing this work? I'm like, nope.

I'll take as much on as I possibly can. I can get subcruise and we can layer and we can scale. I'm not worried about not producing the work. In a W2 model, obviously, you are a little bit handcuffed, right? And I think it works to our advantage as well, because, you know, painters, you know, we have a short exterior painting season here, for example, where guys get booked out. Like, oh, we're booked out for the summer, where we can constantly keep layering on, laying on work for people that need it done.

Same thing with people moving in, purchasing a new home. They want it painted before they move in, which is easier for both of us. It's easier for us as the painters. It's easier for them moving in. We can easily scale up, get a sub on that. Yep, we can get you in next week. Boom. So it's really important to not only have your core base of subs, and my subs work solely for me. They don't work for anyone else. You know, when we look for that type of subcontractor, a true subcontractor, not a hybrid.

And the hybrids want a little bit more money. They might have some branding on their truck. They're the ones who are handing their card out to the neighbor and not your card. So we look for true subs. And some of that started with us weren't true subs. They were hybrids, but really enjoyed working for us. Love the consistent work.

percent work for us.

Chris Kiefer (17:07.176)

And you guys are basically the value that you're, it's almost, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna relate it to a franchise model that takes care of sales, marketing, systems, processes, that type of thing. But that's basically, you're not a franchise, but I'm saying that if I'm a person that knows how to paint, I can either decide to go on my own and take on the burden of estimating effectively, find like qualifying customers, figuring out the marketing channels, doing all that.

or I can come to you, I focus on my craft and you handle literally everything else. You tell me when to show up, you give me the work order, and I am just working. And that's essentially the decision that a sub is making when they're working with you exclusively, right?

Ty Brown (17:53.27)

That's correct, yeah, and we treat them like partners. We're treating them like employees, obviously staying within the guidelines of what you can and can't do with a subcontractor. But there are homeowners out there that are concerned about the subcontractors coming out with their painters. So our guys, like I said, they're partners of us. They show up in our Mountain West gear, all our attire, they work fully for us. The only thing is their trucks aren't wrapped like our trucks are.

Chris Kiefer (18:02.295)

Right.

Ty Brown (18:23.419)

But when you're driving by a job site and you see them painting a home, they're in all our blue shirts. No Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore whites. They look like mountain west painting employees.

Chris Kiefer (18:35.552)

That's awesome. So what is the, you've been doing this now two full years under your belt, what is the secrets or the systems, and again, I don't know if you wanna go sales route or software or systems and processes or financing or whatever it is, what are the things that you know now that you would have loved to have known on day one?

Ty Brown (19:05.006)

I probably would have invested a little bit more in SEO a little bit earlier on. That's probably the only thing I would have changed at this point. And we have invested. It's been about a little over a year we've been with our current marketing agency and our organic rankings are great. Our organic leads are great. Our first year we existed, we were kind of relying on lead services.

Right now we've trickled that down and are barely relying on that right now. Really just full SEO and Facebook ads is what we're kind of operating off of right now, all our leads.

Chris Kiefer (19:45.236)

And you guys are, what's the city you guys are in?

Ty Brown (19:49.162)

Our business is based in Littleton, Colorado. I live up in the foothills. I live in Evergreen, Colorado. We do a lot up in the mountains as well, but our business is, addresses Littleton, Colorado, which is Southwest Denver. So we deal with the Southwest area of Denver and up into the foothills.

Chris Kiefer (19:51.2)

Littleton. Okay.

Chris Kiefer (20:06.4)

Yeah, and then you said that you would have invested in SEO. That's a buzzword to me. I've got a lot of visceral reactions when I hear marketers talk about that because I think there's a lot of, what's the word, black hats or shady, maybe they're intentionally being deceptive or they just have no idea, but what is SEO to you and what is the aspect of quote unquote SEO, which is this.

It's a massive topic to get into. But what has been the really valuable part of that has had a nice ROI?

Ty Brown (20:37.676)

Yeah.

Ty Brown (20:44.918)

Yeah, the big thing is your rankings organically, right? So Google, you know, House Painters, Littleton, Colorado, we're gonna show up number one. House Painters in Evergreen, Colorado, where I live, we're gonna show up number one. Which is key when people are searching for you online, they're gonna go to those trusted, kind of obviously guys that fall at the top. If you're on page two, you don't exist. So really that and focusing on your map pack.

rankings. Obviously you want to be in the top three in Google, so really that's driven by your Google activity, your photos you're posting, and most importantly your reviews is what's driving your MapPaks. Right now we have 110 five-star reviews, so we sit fairly highly on the MapPaks as well.

Chris Kiefer (21:32.544)

Hmm. So anything else in that SEO space you feel like is notable for a painting company that's trying to optimize their ranking?

Ty Brown (21:40.99)

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, it's finding someone who you can trust to do it. I think that, like you mentioned earlier, there's a lot of guys out there. I interviewed a lot of people before I landed on the current company we're with now. But really, you know, there's a lot of moving parts to it. Obviously, getting that ranking, updating your site, keywords on your site. You know, our site compared to where it was.

The first year we started, it's night and day. So it's very user-friendly. It loads fast, which kind of is a key to your rankings as well. The mobile platform is very important. But just that it's very user-friendly. I think now our site has a quality look to it, where in the past it didn't. And I think we're converting a lot of those people that actually land on our site just because it is user-friendly.

I think we're converting a lot of those into leads from just landing on our page.

Chris Kiefer (22:44.116)

And so the other thing that I would say, well I guess I'll ask you broadly, you have the entire painting business, all the aspects of it. What do you feel like is the secret sauce, so to speak, or your zone of genius, and maybe is a better way to ask it, because it's not really a secret, potentially, depending on what this is, but what is your zone of genius that you feel like you're able to bring to your business that has enabled you to

grow this efficiently and profitably, very profitably, that you would apply, maybe you would apply this to any business that you're in, but you happen to be in the painting world.

Ty Brown (23:24.382)

Yeah, so coming out of running, you know, kind of a $40 million business, I think, you know, I lived and died by a P&L. So I think really knowing your numbers, I think is the biggest thing. I live by my numbers, you know, we're doing, you know, our GP right now is for the years at 51%. And I won't do anything less than 50. Could I be at 2.5 million at a 45 GP? Probably, but I'm...

I'm very margin driven, very driven by the numbers. So that's.

I think that's what I bring into the industry is kind of on for me is kind of that business side and really you know I look at it as I run kind of a marketing and project management company more than a painting business.

Chris Kiefer (24:10.292)

Hmm. Have you, are there any books on this, like you just said, marketing and project management that have been influential in how you structured this business?

Ty Brown (24:22.583)

Um, you know, like I said initially, Rich Dad Poor Dad was a great one. I love that book.

Good to Great is a great one. That book really, you know, kind of putting the right people in the right seat. You know, it took me a while to hire a project manager. Man, I got a great one. You know, it's higher, slow, fire, fast, you know? So really kind of took my time on finding someone who, I mean, he is great with the customers. He's amazing. He has 25 years of painting experience. So really.

I think that book really kind of focuses on getting the right people in the right seat. So I think that helped a bunch. Another book that I do really like that I read recently is Who Not How was another book. I really like that book. That did change my mindset because I love to roll up my sleeves, get in and dive in and get things done. But that book really kind of puts perspective on things of why you should kind of step back. And

Chris Kiefer (25:12.726)

Mmm

Ty Brown (25:29.218)

Figure out who, not how.

Chris Kiefer (25:30.888)

Yeah, your unique ability. Everyone has a unique ability. So, to clarify, you're saying your unique ability, if we use Dan Sullivan's language, is what?

Ty Brown (25:46.634)

My unique ability.

Ty Brown (25:51.158)

You know, I think, you know, working in kind of my previous role, obviously managing a lot of people, you know, I had like 350 people underneath me at times is really kind of motivating people and inspiring them to work. Like my project manager, we get along great. I mean, it's like we get on the phone and we chat, you know, we'll start off chatting five or ten minutes about everything, you know.

Chris Kiefer (26:04.569)

Mmm.

Ty Brown (26:15.638)

personal stuff before we get into work. And then we'll end our call with 20, 25 minutes of chatting and laughing about some stuff. So I run really, I believe in emotional bank account, right? So really making those deposits in someone's bank. And when you're working with a lot of people and a big organization, you gotta have those people on your side. So really it's important to make those deposits, learn something about everyone, build that rapport.

Chris Kiefer (26:25.75)

Mmm.

Ty Brown (26:39.818)

My subs are the same way. They love seeing me when I come out there and they're like, oh, they love it, because we have fun, we chat, but then we're also serious about business as well. So, for example, one of my subs, we have a cold day today, he's out doing random stuff for me at all these other jobs and he doesn't even wanna get paid. He's like, oh, well, here's an 18-pack of Modelo, take that for the day, at least. So, really kind of inspiring people to work for you and building those relationships is really important and that's something I've learned from my past.

past experience of really treating these subcontractors the way they should be treated and they're super excited about it.

Chris Kiefer (27:16.728)

Hmm. Um, so I want to dive into the topic of no code tools. Um, this is the part that I would say, I'm, I guess I would say whether or not you recognize it, I would say that this is probably a unique ability because I don't think you appreciate how rare it is for an owner to have the knowledge that you have around, you know, uh, Monday, go high level Zapier, the things that you're setting up and connecting.

is really quite advanced for the typical painting company owner that I see. So I'm curious, when did you stumble across these tools? What have you learned about these tools? And what would you tell someone who is considering using these tools that may not have that much experience in software or whatever?

Ty Brown (28:10.806)

Yeah, so we use Go High Level as our CRM, Paint Scout for estimating, Paint Scout is amazing. And then we use monday.com, as you mentioned, for our production. Now, for me, obviously with my background, obviously a lot of moving parts, it was all about efficiencies. So for me, starting off, I don't have an admin, don't have an office manager, didn't even have a project manager up until a few months ago.

everything need to be automated for me to be where I am today. If it wasn't, I would drive myself crazy. To back up, why I got into painting business is to spend time with my family. So I don't want to go home at night. I want to go home at night, put everything aside, everything is good. So when I first started, I'd come home at night, I'm doing estimates for four hours, defeating the purpose of why I got into this to see my kids at night. Paint Scout cured that, okay? So now I give...

probably 95% of my estimates on site. There may be some that a little bit complex, I need to kind of take back to the office and figure a few things out, but most of them are delivered on the site. If they aren't delivered on the site, I have them out within an hour, right? So I schedule my estimates out for an hour long, hour to hour 15, I give myself a half hour between estimates to really kind of get that honed in. So that was a big thing for me. And then really I'm like, okay, pain scout.

is the best in my mind, their presentation, production rates, everything about it is great. I know now I have my Paint Scout I can hand off to anyone and they can walk in and give an estimate if they know nothing about painting, right? So how do I connect everything to Paint Scouts? And then obviously connecting go high level, zapping that into Paint Scout when go high level, when a job's accepted. Obviously through go high level, we have all the automated follow-ups from the time we book an estimate, from the time it enters the consideration stage.

Chris Kiefer (29:47.768)

Hmm.

Ty Brown (30:03.854)

to the time it closes. So really having those automated follow-ups. I do still like to make phone calls and I do that when I can, but the automated process is there to free up my time and really focus on sales. And then obviously Monday with the platform, everything is automated in Monday. And by Monday, I'm setting it up now for the future. So I'm really looking at building that foundation. So when I do start adding bodies, whether it be an admin, whether it's sales, more production.

they can hop right in that platform and it's ready to go.

Chris Kiefer (30:37.084)

And you built all of these or customized them, right? Cause they're all no code tools that are intended to be modified and fit your business. But you did all of this stuff on your own, correct?

Ty Brown (30:49.014)

Yes sir, yeah everything. So it really was just trial and error. Monday's pretty easy in my mind, it's simple. You fool around with it and you can figure it out fairly quick. A lot of the automations are super easy, it's great. But I do help some other guys out as well, some other painters in the space, kind of setting up their Monday, people that are having issues with it in chat groups. I give them access to mine and let them kind of look around in it and help them out wherever they can.

get on Zoom calls and help them set it up. Because, you know, really out there to just, wherever I can help in the industry, just to modernize the whole industry, it's going to be better for all of us in the long run.

Chris Kiefer (31:29.56)

Totally. And what advice would you have to someone that has never used these tools and is like maybe feeling overwhelmed or like they're not capable?

Ty Brown (31:43.094)

I think the biggest thing is don't be intimidated, right? It does take some time. For me, what I do is I'm set right now for the summer. We're getting to, you know, we're a month out from our slow season. I really focus in on the winter of really fine tuning. Like I have a list of things I wanna work on, things I need that come up when I'm out estimating with Paint Scout. I'm like, okay, I need to change just production rate. I need to fix this. There's things in Monday. When I get those down times, focus on the winter, really get that dialed in.

for next season. But I think, you know, the biggest thing is just reach out to help anyone. You know, I get some help through Monday, their groups on Facebook. There's a lot of people out there that can help you out. Even their tech support's great whenever you need it. But I think the biggest thing, you just can't be intimidated. Don't go back to your old ways. I know you gotta get off of that if you are handwriting estimates or, you know, you're writing stuff in a planner, you know, that stuff.

That's just not sustainable. You need to make the leap, and if you need assistance, just reach out. There's plenty of guys like yourself that can help people get there.

Chris Kiefer (32:52.372)

Yeah, I would say that Zapier in particular, is that one that you had researched before, how did you stumble into that and when was the first time that you made your first Zap?

Ty Brown (33:05.483)

I probably made my first zap.

Ty Brown (33:10.454)

I was originally, I started originally on Jobber, right? I did Jobber. So that Jobber is kind of that all in one where the leads would come in through Jobber. You do your estimate. I had an Excel spreadsheet where all my production rates were I did my estimating. Once I got off of Jobber, went to PaintScout, I was forced to do zaps, right? So I was a forced to use. At that time I was using Monday for my CRM and I was using it for production. So I was really zapping everything, you know, from Monday.

Chris Kiefer (33:28.614)

Mmm.

Ty Brown (33:39.654)

into PaintScout so it'll be ready. So everything was zapped in there. When I went to on-site, all the contact information will be in there, everything for that job, right? When that was completed or they accepted it, declined it, it would zap it back to Monday and move it into the next stage of production. And then obviously Monday, the automations would work for them, you know, work within Monday.

Chris Kiefer (34:01.24)

So the jobber one's interesting. So you, this is my wording, tell me if you'd agree with this. You use jobber, you see the benefit of having this all-in-one solution and how things are automatically created and you're able to track things easily. And I'm guessing that it was that awareness of how a structure or an architecture is set up. Then when you found the industry specific tool, Paint Scout, you're like, how do I get it to do what was happening for me in jobber now that it's not all-in-one? Is that more or less correct or would you modify that?

Ty Brown (34:31.006)

Yeah, so I think Jobber was great, but I needed a little bit more out of it. I think the lead management part of it I wasn't the biggest fan of. Obviously the estimating part of it, I had to build my estimate and then re-enter my estimate in Jobber. I need to stop that. That was just too much work.

Chris Kiefer (34:53.953)

Were you building your estimates in Excel or something? Yeah.

Ty Brown (34:55.85)

And an Excel, yeah, Google, a Google sheet, yeah. So it was laid out, you know, it's really, it was all production rate driven. So I'd enter my, you know, whatever the surface was, enter my linear feed, square footage, I enter my measurements in there and it would spit out my numbers for me. So it was really quick using it. It was kind of like Paint Scout, but I wasn't delivering on site, right? So I did run Monday for a while as well, sorry, Paint Scout and Jobber.

I started comparing my sales rate through Jobber and Paint Scout, and my sales rate with Paint Scout is five points higher. So I'm like, okay, I'm full on, Paint Scout is the way to go, their presentation, everything, the way it's presented to client is amazing. And we get constant feedback from clients of how professional we look and how thorough compared to our competition.

Chris Kiefer (35:51.841)

I feel like you're giving like this fantastic testimonial for paint scout. We got to tell them, hey, tell your yeah. You're not.

Ty Brown (35:57.593)

It changed my life. No, it is great. It's great.

Chris Kiefer (36:05.464)

Cause I have, I work closely with Bryce there, CTO. I've given so many back and forth emails and sent videos on like, hey, could you modify this? Or should make this better if you allowed Zapier to do XYZ. But I, yeah, I, to be honest, the specialty in a given in like niche, like estimating specifically for painters and the fact that there's a software company that exists for that. And they have, you know, however many developers and a customer success team and like

There's these like when someone says, oh, I'm just gonna do it myself in Excel, or I'm going to just make my own estimating tool, or I'm gonna use a non industry specific estimating tool, that just confuses me. I don't understand because yeah, the tool when you find the thing that is built specifically for your use case, it's amazing.

Ty Brown (36:56.234)

Yeah, and I think, like I said, delivering the estimate on site is huge. You're out there, you're working for that sale, you're building that rapport, the customer's super happy, all of a sudden you leave, right? Send that estimate out for a day, they forget about that, right? So unless you send it on the spot or within, I mean, John at Paint Scout has some stats is the longer you wait, how your sales rate will fall off dramatically. So...

Chris Kiefer (37:11.524)

Hmm.

Ty Brown (37:25.418)

So that's the biggest thing is delivering on site. It's great.

Chris Kiefer (37:29.7)

That's awesome. Any other thoughts around tools, software, advice, just scaling, what else can you share with fellow painting business owners?

Ty Brown (37:44.11)

I think the biggest thing is just that we're all in this together and we network. I try to talk to everyone I can, everyone I see in the painting store making friends. You always have those grumpy guys out there, but I think in general we're all in this together and I'm out to help anyone I can. I reach out to certain guys I know and I'll get an answer back in five minutes. Larger guys in the PCA that have been around for a while are really helping me out as well.

Really anything we can do as a whole to elevate the painting business. And obviously the technical side is huge. Really being able, looking for an exit down the road for example, if someone's coming in and looking at your business and it's pretty much turnkey, oh wait, you have an estimating software, I can go out and estimate and I don't know how to paint? Or here's everything set up, everything's running, someone can just take it over and it's pretty turnkey.

I think that's the biggest thing is, you gotta have that tech stack and it's gotta be dialed. I don't think some investor would wanna come in and say, oh wait, how do you estimate? You go out and say, oh, it's about two days, four guys, you know, that's not gonna work, you know? So really it's getting that tech stack, automating as much as you can, and really kind of elevating your business.

Chris Kiefer (38:59.223)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (39:08.988)

Awesome. Last couple questions for you. What three book recommendations?

Ty Brown (39:14.318)

I think I covered most of them. Who Not How, like I mentioned, I love that one. Good to Great. And I love Rich Dad Poor Dad.

Chris Kiefer (39:26.612)

And then favorite movie.

Ty Brown (39:30.676)

I don't really watch many movies, don't spend much time on TV. I'm more like a podcast guy and you know.

Chris Kiefer (39:37.56)

Give me some podcast recommendations. Who are your favorite podcasts?

Ty Brown (39:41.07)

I listen to every painting one out there. So whether it's the PCA, I like the paint ed.

Chris Kiefer (39:49.836)

The painted? Oh, paint ed, okay.

Ty Brown (39:51.414)

paint ed. painting marketing masterminds a good one. I also like contractor evolution is a great one as well. Great stuff. Yeah, he had a BTA some good ones. But movies probably I don't know old school movies I'm into probably fast times at Ridgemont High or some

Chris Kiefer (40:02.584)

BTA.

Chris Kiefer (40:12.932)

Fast times at Ridgemont High.

Chris Kiefer (40:19.532)

I have not heard of that one. 7.1. So this is interesting, because I don't get a chance to come up with this proposition often, but I'm a big IMDB ratings person, and so I always ask, so the threshold for IMDB is 7.3. So if you give a recommendation that is above a 7.3, I'll add it to my watch list, and next time we're gonna watch a movie, I'll do that. If it's below a 7.3,

Ty Brown (40:32.167)

Uh huh.

Chris Kiefer (40:49.068)

which this one happens to be a 7.1. Now it goes to the second phase of the process, which is everybody gets a mulligan. And so you get to choose, do you want to use your mulligan to say, Chris, I know it's below 7.3, but this is definitely worth the watch. If I like it, you get your mulligan back. If I don't like it, then I don't take another sub 7.3 recommendation from you again. So the ball's in your court.

Is this what you want to use your mulligan on?

Ty Brown (41:22.612)

Um, yeah, I think you'll like it.

Chris Kiefer (41:25.801)

All right, not super confident, but you did say yes. So awesome. Well, if someone wants to reach out to you and get in touch, how would you recommend that they do that?

Ty Brown (41:36.483)

Facebook, I'm on Facebook or Ty at Mount West painting.com anyone can email me or look up our site reach out through there. It's the best bet.

Chris Kiefer (41:46.684)

Awesome. Well, Ty, really appreciate your time and just the generosity that you give to so many of the painting people out there in the world. It's great chatting with you and we'll be in touch.

Ty Brown (41:57.238)

All right, thank you so much.