Optimizing Your Resources To Live a Deep & Meaningful Life

Chris Kiefer (00:00.62)

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Pursuit of Purpose. And today I have Sarah Barb, who is a North Idahoian, just like me. I don't even know if that's a word. I just decided to make that up on the fly, but she's an entrepreneur. We met in a through a mutual friend up here in I live in Coeur d'Alene. She's in Post Falls and she's just doing all sorts of cool stuff. And Sarah, I told you, but I saw on your Facebook a couple of weeks ago, just talking about.

optimizing your life, trying to live a deep, meaningful life. And so that's gonna be the topic of the conversation. But before we get into that, I'd love for you to give an overview of Blue Sky Dex, some of the investing that you're doing, just the entrepreneurial mind that you and your husband have, and then we'll dive into the conversation.

Sara Barb (00:50.806)

Sure. Thanks for having me, Chris. I really appreciate it. It's always fun to do these kinds of things. But yeah, so Patrick and I, we're real estate investors. We kind of say we're entrepreneurs by day and real estate investors by night. We have a portfolio of 20 doors right now. We started our entrepreneurial endeavors in trying to manage those doors ourselves. So we started a property management company.

We stepped on the throttle hard and then took it off hard. So that still exists. It's just not really doing anything, the property management company. We just have, but just.

Chris Kiefer (01:31.128)

Do you still manage your own or you just have other people do it?

Sara Barb (01:34.574)

We manage our own and then we've got a couple others that we've gotten roped into so all the systems are there and in place in case I ever want to scale that company but for now I'm happy just doing ours it's enough. And a couple others that we've got going on too. And then from there we had all North Idaho. Well yeah from Spokane to Bonhams Ferry.

Chris Kiefer (01:50.36)

Yeah.

all North Idaho properties.

Chris Kiefer (02:00.524)

Okay, nice. And short term and long term or mixture?

Sara Barb (02:01.206)

So kind of a wide range, but.

I don't do the short term because it's too much of a time commitment. I've got a midterm and then the rest are long term. Midterm meaning like three months nursing tech professionals, that kind of stuff.

Chris Kiefer (02:15.601)

Nice, okay.

Chris Kiefer (02:24.588)

And then other question I have on that topic specifically, because we have one rental property. What is the breakdown, you said 20, what are the single family duplexes, condos, apartments, what is the, it doesn't have to be exact numbers, but where do you guys lean more towards one type than another?

Sara Barb (02:44.082)

I prefer multifamily. Our midterm rental is a single family home. It's a four, two. So that's kind of just broken up by the room. We're just diving into that. So I could tell you more about that in a year or two. But other than that, we've got a couple of our fee spaces. We've got a fourplex, we've got a 12plex. We've, yeah, I prefer the larger properties because it's all under one roof. It's all in one location.

You know, you replace one roof instead of 12 roofs. So as I move forward, I'll be moving more in that direction than the smaller things.

Chris Kiefer (03:23.908)

That's awesome. The 12plex, that sounds like a, did you guys have to build that or did you come across that and find that?

Sara Barb (03:30.67)

Phew! That was an accident that I... No, it wasn't an accident. It was very intentional. I had sat out and I said I wanted to purchase a 12 unit apartment complex, and then I was at a networking group and the guy behind me stood up and said, I've got a 12 unit apartment complex, and pretty much we got under contract the next day. It was a fluke, but also very intentional. You put yourself out there and that's what you get. Yeah, but that's... it's not a new build. We had to do a...

Chris Kiefer (03:50.724)

Wow.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Sara Barb (04:00.558)

lot of renovation on that but it was good.

Chris Kiefer (04:05.4)

So I'm curious before, well, because I'm sure you've got some other things to say. So I wanna stick on this real estate for a little bit, just because personally, it's something that I'm very interested in. I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs try to, what I have heard is that building a business is a great way to make wealth more quickly or more quickly than say trying to do it solely through acquiring rentals, but using real estate to manage the wealth that.

your business creates is the best way to do it, or at least that's what I, that's my current operating assumption. Would you agree with that, or would you add anything to that?

Sara Barb (04:38.262)

them... yeah.

Sara Barb (04:44.898)

The model that we use is that we are building our business to build our real estate. So we have our businesses that are creating income, profits, all that kind of stuff. We've got salaries through it. The steadier and bigger we can build that business, the more we can invest in our real estate. And as we start to build our real estate portfolio, then we can also reinvest that into real estate. And then since we've built a...

sizeable portfolio at a young age. Now we're going to look at transitioning into debt leverage, from debt leverage into trying to get stuff paid off so that we're working less on a leveraged, levered point for our real estate and we'll just have our cash flow. Then like sky's limit at that point, once you start paying things off, you know, we can retire on, I mean, what, like it's probably

Sara Barb (05:42.142)

without the debt. So that's what I'm looking at now. So I continue to build the businesses from a financial standpoint. The business is there. The purpose of that for us is to invest into the real estate. The real estate is our long-term strategy for retirement and legacy.

Sara Barb (06:04.962)

That makes sense.

Chris Kiefer (06:06.273)

Go through, you just said the debt, or this is just my ignorance in the real estate space, but you said moving from, I don't even know what the word was, debt leverage to something else, or from something else to debt leverage.

Sara Barb (06:21.582)

Sure, so the strategy that we employed for building a rental portfolio was first, we took the first step in investing. That was our, the first property that we ever purchased was our four unit apartment complex. That was, we intended on living in that and then renting out the other three, we just happened to stumble across our primary residence a month after we purchased that. So it was kind of crazy. We did a full remodel on that.

raised the rents from five, six hundreds to eight, nine hundreds, and now there are 12, 13, 14 hundreds in that apartment. So it's worth more now. We did a cash out refinance on that and then stuck it into our next property. We were doing fix and flips at the time as well, which we've since exited that realm because it's an entire business on its own.

Sara Barb (07:20.002)

capital, all of the equity that we had raised in these buildings, and then we pulled it out and put it into purchasing and rehabbing the next property. That's a really good strategy in an upward market. However, markets shifted, so that's not really such a great strategy now. I'm going to focus now on taking all the cash flow that we have and paying things off so that...

Chris Kiefer (07:33.232)

Got it.

Sara Barb (07:47.146)

we don't have the debt coverage anymore, and then we can do the Dave Ramsey snowball, but instead of, you know, like, we're building income doing that instead of just saving money.

Chris Kiefer (07:51.423)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (07:59.888)

So you're kind of taking the, I'm gonna say it in this way, that you're going from this like aggressive growth or portfolio building to then a more secure and stable place of like, okay, we're not trying to acquire more properties right now, pay off what we have, essentially eliminating all the risk. And then once everything's paid off, you got income to continue buying more. But you at least have a part of your portfolio will always be paid off, or at least that would be the plan, is that right?

Sara Barb (08:27.594)

Yeah, yeah, that's the plan. So we're kind of shifting from a Robert Kiyosaki method to a Dave Ramsey method, but all of our debt, the requirement for us having debt for ourselves is that the debt's paying for itself. So that's the only difference between us and Dave Ramsey.

Chris Kiefer (08:43.604)

Yeah, yeah. Got it. So jumping into the so you've got your blue sky decks, got some real estate that you've started acquiring my I'm open to you kind of just the topic of this optimizing resources to live a deep and meaningful life. Where like let's open up that conversation wherever. Like, is this something that?

Sara Barb (09:07.979)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (09:08.456)

Is recently a passion or are you, how are you diving into this in your own life or why are you diving into this focus?

Sara Barb (09:16.966)

Yeah, it's funny. I was trying to think about how to start this or how deep to go because it's really an all-encompassing question for me right now. We started businesses in real estate in 2018, so it's been five, six years now since we did that and that's the same period that we started building our family. We have four boys now since, so the oldest just turned six.

it's insanely crazy in our life. And right now we're at a pain point where my oldest has reached school age. We've decided to homeschool. We've also decided that we want to start growing and producing as much of our own food as we possibly can. Just, you know, it's, we're hopping on the homestead and craze, put it there. But there's a lot of different pain points

The point that I reached this year was that I am spending all of my time in the business, in networking, in growing that, losing sight of why I'm doing it, you know, for my family that can't, and my marriage and all that. And I think as business owners, we all reached that point and we reach it multiple times. And it got painful there for a minute.

And I always like to say that pain is, the pain points are the ones that push us to growth, to pursue further. And that's one of the things that I'm realizing every time that I think that I've started to reach it, whatever the it is, then the bottom falls out and I'm like, I'm nowhere near what I could be, what I should be, the person that I want to be.

I'm doing all the things right. I'm doing the happy Instagrammable life or whatever, but my kids don't get to see me enough. My husband and I aren't speaking enough, all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of what led me to diving into how am I spending my resources and how can I continue to pursue the biggest, deepest, most meaningful life that I can.

Sara Barb (11:44.27)

without losing sight of why I'm doing these things to begin with. And you know, that's, that's...

Chris Kiefer (11:51.116)

And right now, would you have your why figured out?

Sara Barb (11:55.814)

It's funny because it's shifting. I had my why and I was like this is this is a huge Like my dreams are huge and people say sarah You're you're so driven and your vision is huge and then what I realized that it wasn't Deep enough for me And it didn't Suit my purposes. So right now it's been a season of developing further further. What is my why?

what is the meaning of why I'm here? And I don't know if you saw that on Facebook, but I took a picture of a tree and this is what I've been developing lately. It's here's the tree, the trunk is me. This is who I am. At the very core is Sarah, self, me, myself. And then you have the layers of that trunk and following that is like me and my relationship. Who am I related to, my spouse, my husband?

And then further than that, who am I in relation to my family? And then further than that, who am I relation to my church and my community? And then further than that, who am I in relation to society as a whole? And this is who I am. This is what makes up me. How do I meet all of those layers of who I am and serve all of them to the best of my ability and maybe the importance is working inside out like that.

I think a lot of times the importance is depending on the time, because there's people that have to put their duty to their country above their family, and in that way they're serving their family. So this is kind of all the stuff that I've been encompassing. How do you make these decisions on what's important right now in this moment to actually serve the entire trunk of that tree inside out? And then I was...

diving deeper further where it's like, you know, people talk about what are your pillars, what are your pillars in life or whatever. And a lot of people say, faith, finance, fitness, family, whatever it looks like for you. But one thing that I realized when I was diving into this was that there is a hierarchy. God comes first in my life. My marriage comes right after that. My family comes right after that. But I also have a duty towards my church. I have a duty towards the society as a whole.

Sara Barb (14:15.842)

How do I fit all of this in? And on top of that, how do I maintain my health? How do I maintain my home? I am a homemaker at the same time. How do I maintain the continual education of myself and my children? How do I maintain my entrepreneurial pursuits, which in my pillars, I'm calling them higher, the enterprising, which is the creation and management of resources.

And then how do I maintain the pursuit of legacy on top of that? There's so much that we have to pack into our life. This is where I'm like in the pursuit of it. It's yeah, that's why I dive deep into time management strategies, how to strategize my resources and really use each one of them intentionally. So so I look at those pillars that are my life as the roots.

of the life and then the fruits are the things that are, you know, the virtues, the money, the resources that are coming out of the way that I intentionally build every aspect of my life. So when I focus on my health, I have more energy, I have more positive energy to give. When I focus on enterprising that I'm creating,

money and resources for my family, for my employees, for the church that I'm contributing to, all this stuff. So it becomes now, this is the tree that I'm building and this is how it's producing the fruit. And then how do I touch on all of these all the time? And then like in my vision that I have for this way of life is now

you have, where is God in this? Where is God in this tree? Use the soil that I'm pulling everything out of.

Chris Kiefer (16:16.172)

And you're asking that question every, like with everything that you're doing, you're asking where's God in this? Yeah.

Sara Barb (16:20.598)

Everything. Yes. So these fruits that I'm producing, I'm picturing like you've got fruits and they fall into the earth and these are gifts that I'm giving back to God for all the things that he's given me. So everything is pointing to God at the end of the day. Everything is taken from his strength and grace that he's given to me and I'm trying to utilize all of myself in the pursuit of a deeper, more

meaningful and fulfilling life with the purpose of serving God, serving my marriage, serving my family, serving my community, serving my serving society as a whole. And how can I continue to develop this and grow it deeper and be like, just change the trajectory of the world in my tiny little, however I can.

just a little bit higher, a little bit better, inspire somebody a little bit to dive in a little bit deeper, take my children and give them the framework and tools to have them pursue life deeper than I'm able to. Like that's, yeah, that's okay. So that's how and why I've been diving. I've been on this pursuit for, I don't know, five, 10 years, whatever it's been. I hit...

Chris Kiefer (17:47.628)

I have one question on family and timing of all this, because you said four boys, all this is six. So we have four kids. We have a six year old, four, you're almost four, almost two, or sorry, almost six, almost four, just turned two and then a week old baby. So we're like right in the, it sounds like you're like a month or three months ahead of us or something. But I'm.

Sara Barb (17:51.895)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (18:05.162)

Yes, congratulations.

Sara Barb (18:10.13)

Yup.

Chris Kiefer (18:14.264)

The reason I'm asking this is because for Natalie and I, it seems like every single kid that we've had, I mean, naturally, it's just this enormous, it's a huge shift. Like, your whole life is like turned upside down, it's especially right after the baby. Like, sleep deprivation, you know, just trying to get everyone adjusted, the kids and everything. So we're like thick in it right now.

Sara Barb (18:36.406)

Hehehehe

Sara Barb (18:42.975)

Oh, I know.

Chris Kiefer (18:43.116)

But I'm curious, how has the timing or the adjustments of what you're pursuing aligned with the, because you're most, what's your youngest?

Sara Barb (18:54.966)

My youngest just turned five months, so yeah, I'm about four months ahead of you.

Chris Kiefer (18:59.316)

Yeah. So how is the how has all of the things that you're pursuing been lined up with? Because I feel like when for me personally, I don't know if Natalie would agree with this, but I was like, before we had kids, we were married, you know, living in a three, like super small two bedroom house. And it was just like, I was going to take over the world. And I was doing just working so hard cold callings, whatever I could. And then I had

Ellie and then it was just like within a couple of months I was just like, just I think I'll just be a dad. Like I just don't care about anything. And then it came back, you know, and they're actually found that the is interesting since this is a tangent for another time. But I've been diving deeper into like hormones and how hormones affect different moods and like biologically like what happens to dads and moms. Yeah, for both.

Sara Barb (19:39.65)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (19:53.016)

For men and women. Men and women. Yes.

Chris Kiefer (19:58.428)

It's crazy. So it's not like it was a spiritual thing, it's like, yeah.

Sara Barb (20:00.106)

Okay, Chris, I gotta say, yeah.

Yeah, I gotta say I look at this as the seasons of life. Like, so if we're gonna put it in the context of the tree of my life that I've been developing, these are the seasons. And that's one thing that I think most women in particular get so intimidated by when they're pursuing these bigger visions is taking the seasons of life into context. Like you know, this is both of our fourth children, so we have some kind of preparation going into it.

This was a much more difficult child for me than my third one was, this past one. If anyone follows me on social media, you'll notice I dropped off for an entire six months. And it was fantastic. And I transitioned a lot of things. I transitioned a lot of things. But taking into context the seasons of life, and I think that's where...

Chris Kiefer (20:49.432)

Hahaha.

Sara Barb (21:00.874)

Um, the way I like to frame it in my life is intention, engagement, and examination. Um, so my intention in the first six months of my child's life is to give them everything that I possibly can. So I took my foot off the pedal in my business. I mean, I don't want to say I completely deserted everything, but in some ways I did because I'm a mom and that comes first. Um, but.

I knew going into this that my intention had to be towards my child first above my businesses, above the pursuit of growing our portfolio, above all the networking and all that kind of stuff, and then engaging in my children's lives because that is the season that I'm in, especially with my child going, he's starting school and we're starting homeschooling together. So this is completely new too. I need to engage that. And I think the most important part is the examination.

recently heard a man, what did he say? He said that it was it was at the end of a workshop. And what he had said was, I am looking forward to living an examined life. And that hit me so profoundly. I'm like, I think that's the piece that a lot of us are missing, is the examination that comes after that intention, that intentionality and even the engagement. So I view

Chris Kiefer (22:17.936)

Mm.

Sara Barb (22:28.878)

the seasons of my motherhood as the seasons, that's what they are, the seasons. I will be back grinding my derriere on business pursuits again, but my intention going forward is to keep the context of the full trunk and not just my pursuit of the enterprise because I love it and I have so much fun with it.

Chris Kiefer (22:54.48)

So I have to ask also, because this is something that I think is more, more of a problem for women than men. And this is my limited worldview of talking with Natalie about this mostly, but I feel like Natalie has struggled, and this is like how I'm trying to figure out and how do we move forward with this with the kids that we have now. But,

Sara Barb (23:02.754)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (23:23.668)

In the last two years, we, Natalie and I have been lucky to work together in the same business that I started seven, eight years ago. And she is just crushes it. She's way smarter than I am. She reads like a gazillion books a year, just, but they're all like fiction books. Whereas like I only listen to books I don't read and I only listen to nonfiction. But she's just like a bookworm. She loves taking tests. She has all these certifications. She's a physical therapist.

Sara Barb (23:31.947)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (23:41.974)

Hehehehe

Sara Barb (23:47.191)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (23:53.12)

a women's health physical therapist, and just like all these, she got a doctorate, just like highly, highly educated, and she's been pursuing all of these things and like trophies and accolades more or less. And then she went in and joined like forces with me to run this like essentially a review software, and she's been absolutely crushing sales and the management of our team and just like.

She has all this impressive medical stuff on one side that has nothing to do with Google reviews. But she's also very fulfilled by this work in the medical space that she has done and can do. But the freedom that comes from the entrepreneur life is very attractive and life-giving. But then there's also the fact of trying to balance being a mom.

Sara Barb (24:31.72)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (24:52.256)

like this is the beauty of marriage I think, because I feel like I am more open to just like outsourcing everything that we can. It's like outsource like food prep, cleaning, mowing the lawn, like all of it, I would be fine with. Getting a nanny or an au pair or something. But then there's the other side of, which it sounds like, and this is where I'm curious for you, there is the balance of like, I think, for...

Sara Barb (25:04.182)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (25:20.484)

historically moms, you know, like the traditional family model where the husband was the breadwinner and the mom was at home with the kids, there's like something missing in the woman like pursuing and achieving and stretching and challenging herself that can be inspiring for her, her kids, and her community, right? And just being a mom, if that makes sense, I'm probably butchering how I'm describing this, but I'm wondering like for you, how do you go back and forth from like...

Sara Barb (25:42.418)

Yeah, no, I get.

Chris Kiefer (25:48.736)

I'm gonna be a mom to like, I'm going to be the CEO of Blue Sky Decks and have a real estate portfolio and do business deals and be basically a badass in the entrepreneurial space and also be a mom. Cause I don't think dads have, there's like not that expectation for dads to do both like there is for women.

Sara Barb (26:07.75)

Yeah, it's number one, it's hard. And that's where keeping my priorities straight and why I'm doing the things that I'm doing in front of my face at all times is important. So right now, speaking into optimizing our resources, the resources that I'm specifically talking about today are time.

energy and money. And the thing that I realized this year in my contemplating of life is that money is... you can create as much money as the mindset that you allow yourself to have. So if you've heard of like the financial thermostat, like once you start hacking, how to make more money, it's easy and it's almost

infinitely possible to create more money. Energy is not as infinitely possible. We will run out of energy at, you know, every single day and the consequence of overextending our energy is our health and the way we show up for the people around us and our responsibilities and our commitments. Time, however, is non-renewable.

Chris Kiefer (27:23.876)

Hmm.

Sara Barb (27:33.066)

You have a set amount of time in every day. You have a set amount of time in your life. So the way I look at it is, how can I prioritize my time above all the things? Of course, I have to take into account as I'm outsourcing things, am I replacing that with more income? So that's what I'm looking at right now as I go through everything is, I have a nanny right now.

and we're transitioning into homeschooling. But the education of my children, I feel is most important to me. So how do I continue to get the help and still be the educator? So I have to shift some of my time priorities and how I'm utilizing my nanny in that way. So this is, leverage is really what I'm getting at. We should be not just leveraging our money, but we should be leveraging our energy and our time and looking at each of those in that way. So that's...

Chris Kiefer (28:31.736)

And I was gonna say, I'm gonna pause you, so remember to come back to the nanny thing, but you said that you want to, you look at the things that you're outsourcing, are you like using that outsourcing and gaining back of your time to make more money? And I would say, or time, or sorry, energy, right? It's not, you wouldn't necessarily only do it if it's gonna buy you back money, but if you can bring a bunch of energy back into your life, that would also be something that you would keep, correct?

Sara Barb (28:32.022)

That's... Yeah.

Sara Barb (28:48.138)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Sara Barb (28:54.124)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (28:58.834)

Yeah, yeah. So that's like where I look at all that I... This is how I've started weighing my decisions in the context of time is the most valuable thing that I have. The time that I spend with my family is the most valuable thing that I can give them. But it's not necessarily spending the most amount of time, but the most quality time, and this is where I got into the time blocking.

at the beginning of our entrepreneurial pursuits is going from that. And that's where you had reached out to me the first time. And we can go into that. Some of the strategies that I employ in maximizing the time that I have. But I think really what it is, is learning to leverage the resources that you have. So another way to leverage your time better is spending your time and energy into creating really solid systems.

so that you can spend less time and energy going forward. That's one of the big, big ones that I'm pursuing right now in my business, in my family, in my real estate. I have to look at every single thing in my life and say, is there a standard operating procedure for this? This goes down to how I discipline my children. What is my standard operating procedure for how I discipline my children? Because I have a nanny that spends...

seven hours with them every day and I go in and out. This is one of the things that I love about where I am is I can have her there and I can come in and I can come out and I can communicate with my children and be present as much as I can and then I have my block of time where I am home and I am all engaged. Do not call me, do not text me business, whatever it is, it is my time with my family and that happens at 3 o'clock every day. But anyway,

standard operating procedures, but not just in your business, in your family life. So how I'm dealing with discipline.

Chris Kiefer (30:51.088)

Can you give me an example, or maybe you might, but like literally what does, because you're tapping into like a lot of the stuff that Natalie and I have had conversations around, and one of them is, if you have a nanny, one of the things that Natalie and I have wrestled with is like, your house and your household is literally different when there's a person that's not in your family with your kids. And like, for me, like we have a babysitter that will come over.

regularly a couple hours every day, but it's like the stepping on of toes of like who's the one that is actually in charge right now and who like, so I would imagine that having again, a standard operating procedure for how this works, it's easier, just like an employee, like if you're gonna give an employee a role and they know that whether you're there or not, they own it and they're going to understand the expectations of the role or whatever.

Sara Barb (31:29.847)

Mm.

Chris Kiefer (31:49.976)

But I'm curious if you can give me an example of like before you had an SOP for discipline and after. I'm sure there's different types or levels or intensity or the level of consequence, but what does it actually look like?

Sara Barb (32:02.316)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (32:06.914)

Sure. Right now what our consequence system looks like is we try and focus on specific behaviors. I have toddlers, of course, so one of the things is my toddlers love to leave the yard, which is okay when daddy is home because he's in the yard working, he's in the shop working, or whatever. That's fine. But if daddy's truck isn't there, you don't leave the yard. If you leave the yard, there is a list that we go off of, of consequences. Your name goes on the board.

So usually it looks like they get 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes of tablet time every day where they're playing Khan Academy. And that's their absolute least favorite, least favorite thing to lose. So it's like, you left, yeah, you know that the rule is you may not leave the yard, you left the yard. So then we write on the board, so and so left the yard and they lose their next tablet time. And then they, oh, in there.

Chris Kiefer (32:49.434)

lose.

Chris Kiefer (33:04.012)

Uh-uh.

Sara Barb (33:04.738)

so upset about it, but it takes away the pressure off of my nanny to have to think of a disciplinary action and it makes it so it takes the anger or frustration out of all of us when it comes to a behavior that we're trying to fix. You know, and I, I

Chris Kiefer (33:07.961)

Ha ha ha.

Chris Kiefer (33:27.492)

But then I'm assuming that that's, is it just basically you have a series of escalating consequences and regardless of the offense, so to speak, that it's just like, oh, now we go to the next one and the next one and the next one.

Sara Barb (33:39.694)

Oh no, there's definitely, yeah, some judgment is needed. If they're truly doing something terrible, then it's, well, I always like it consequences too. It's like, you have to have a level of, this is my parenting style, not how everyone looks at it. Some natural consequences are very important.

If you're going to do something stupid or mindless, then I will let you take that natural consequence. If it doesn't happen because they're toddlers, if that natural consequence doesn't happen immediately, I will give them a consequence that happens immediately so that they can see, I did this, therefore this. Because sometimes that natural consequence comes way too late, and they have no idea why this thing happened when they did this over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (34:29.595)

No, correlation, yep.

Sara Barb (34:31.778)

So my goal is to, as they grow older, to let the natural consequences. Right now in my home, what I'm doing is building habit stacks and consequence systems. And then as they get older, it will be more about asking, why did we deploy this habit?

and then as they get older it will be I want you to decide to do this habit and if you don't you get to have the natural consequence of doing it or not doing it. That's my goal for my children.

Chris Kiefer (34:58.064)

Hmm.

Chris Kiefer (35:11.596)

Okay, so the I like that as far as the nanny I'm assuming it was probably hard to find the perfect person a good fit for your family. But what else have you figured out to like to solve the it's I guess I would assume because we've had some very good regular babysitters and we have one right now that's amazing. But I feel like we've it's just like.

Sara Barb (35:22.809)

Oh yeah, took years.

Chris Kiefer (35:40.6)

I don't know, I guess there's a bunch of things that probably don't matter, but I'm curious, like how old is the person? Did they have kids before? Or, you know, like, cause they're, it seems like we've interviewed nannies that are like moms that their kids are all grown. And it seems like the dynamic between us, you know, 30 year old parents is just not the same as like a, you know, late, early 20 year old that's just kind of like, tell me what you guys want me to do. Cause I don't have all these

Sara Barb (35:47.313)

Oh, yeah.

Sara Barb (35:53.89)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (36:09.198)

Sure.

Chris Kiefer (36:09.7)

preconceived ways to discipline and everything. Does that make sense or have you run into that or?

Sara Barb (36:12.53)

Yeah, yeah. So I've tried everything. I'm going to start with how much time and effort do you put into hiring an employee that's a key player in your business? This person is going to be in your home taking care of the most precious asset that you have. Make sure that you are putting that much time and effort and more into choosing that person. That's my first challenge for anyone that's

in that position. And then after that, yeah, I mean, I went through a lot in many years. And finally, the girl that I have right now, she's a gem. She's in her early 20s. She has spent her most of her adult life in the childcare. She's done daycare, she's done preschools. And then she realized that she didn't really like everything in each of the places that she went.

right now pursuing a degree so that she can open her own daycare in the future. So she's got that mindset that says I'm going further, this is what I want to do with my life, I love taking care of children, I'm here to grow and learn, like all that kind of stuff. I got blessed. I'm not going to tell you her name, I'm not going to give out her phone number, if you're watching this.

Chris Kiefer (37:33.208)

That's awesome.

Yeah, so I was gonna poach her.

Sara Barb (37:39.374)

Don't you take this as a sign to leave me. And then I try as best as I can to, you know, compensate in every way that I can to keep her moving forward with us.

Chris Kiefer (37:54.632)

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so then where else should we go with the time we have left?

Sara Barb (38:03.058)

I know 10 minutes is not a lot or five minutes. Yeah, so we're talking about optimizing our resources and like the different things that we could do. So one of that is, is the different strategies that you can deploy in leveraging the resources that you have and the resources we're talking about now are time, energy and money. So I look at my money and I say, how can I make my money?

make more money for me without me putting time into it. And that's where we got into real estate. That being said, I do manage my own real estate, so there is more time than if I had hired a manager. But right now I'm looking at things like what are the things that take the most amount of my time that I make the least amount out of. Some of those things are like books, like

doing, I do all my own books because I love numbers and I'm weird like that, but I need to hire that out. I don't make any money from doing my books and somebody can do it just as well as I. I can train somebody to do it exactly the way I want it because I'm very picky about my books and then I can get hours back from my week or my month and then, you know, that doesn't actually cost a lot. After that though, I need to start looking at somebody that can start managing all the tiny little office things.

opening my mail, answering my phone calls. I hate answering phone calls. I'm absolutely the worst, the worst. Opening my mail, answering my phone calls, like paying bills, that kind of stuff. It's like these take so much of my time and am I actually moving myself forward and doing these things? So one is making your money make money for you. So that's, you know, investments and that kind of stuff. Another is make using your money to give you more time back.

So that's investing in key players. As far as time management goes, we were talking about time blocking before, using a block schedule. So I have my block schedule set up so that I can focus on the pillars of my life throughout my day. I have a set amount of time where I'm doing self care, where it's I'm at the gym.

Sara Barb (40:24.394)

I'm doing my ice baths, I'm doing my crazy protein shakes and I'm spending time in contemplation so that I can better serve my family. I'm spending time on myself. I have that time blocked in my day and I need to honor that as much as I can. I have my time for when I'm in my office and when I am in my office, I need to turn my phone off. I need to turn my social media off and I need to give that everything I got.

because usually it's only an hour or two. That's usually what I have for my office and that's for all of our businesses. And it's like, wow, that's kind of been crazy. But what I learned when I started having, mixing children in business, when you've got a newborn that takes, or a child that takes a nap for an hour, this is all you have before I had childcare. You have an hour to get everything done and you learn to utilize that hour, otherwise you will not have it back. So.

getting really good at that. Then I go home and I take off my work hat and I say don't call me, don't text me, don't do anything, leave me an email or a voicemail and I get back to you when I'm back at that block. If it's an emergency then I can either take care of it or find someone else to take care of that emergency and that's typically what I do is find somebody else to take care of the emergency and the emergency usually looks like there's a toilet problem, whatever it is, there's somebody that can take care of that and that's not me.

Um, so when I get home, there's a strict block of this is getting things done in my home because we're homesteading now. I'm canning, I'm making breads, I'm doing home cooked meals, everything that we can produce at home I'm producing. And then I need to make sure that I take that off and clock in with my children and have a connection, a real connection. I'm looking at your face right now, but like looking...

your loved ones in the eye every single day and having a deep and meaningful connection, even if it's just a toddler and you're saying, what did you really like about today? How are you feeling? I noticed you're upset, like that kind of stuff and really intentionally having that. It doesn't matter that I'm not with them all the time, but if I can show up for them every single day in that manner, I would like to bet that they're going to reach adulthood and say, mom was there for me.

Sara Barb (42:48.01)

that's my hope at least, and still set the example of the fact that there's more to pursue in life than this bubble that maybe we have a duty towards people outside of ourselves. That's where my trunk comes in, is like what is that duty to outside ourselves so that we can show up further and further and further and deeper and deeper and still touch on the things that matter for us. So everything that I'm doing in my life is

Directly pointed to how can I serve God in this way? How can I serve my marriage in this way? How can I serve my family in this way? How does this affect my community? How does this affect society as a whole and like if you listen to I know we're running out of time I could talk forever but um yeah, so I Utilize many different

strategies that I've picked up from reading. Education is one of my pillars. So I spend a lot of time reading, but I'm very intentional with what I read and it usually has to solve a problem that I'm facing right now. But yeah, blocking reading, which and then so here's the thing about all of this though, because it is so much is the thing that I have come to this year is that it is a ongoing pursuit.

it's not about arriving at that perfect balance. Yeah, yeah, because we reached our arrival point before we turned 30 and then it was like hitting a brick wall and being like, shoot, what are we doing? What is this? And I've seen over and over again people fall and trip at that point because they said

Chris Kiefer (44:15.288)

the destination, yep.

Chris Kiefer (44:30.158)

Right.

Sara Barb (44:36.43)

this is what my successful life is going to look like and then they lost track of the things that mattered and then they hit that point where it's like I'm making the money I can do the things that I want to but what am I doing? So pursuing life.

Chris Kiefer (44:53.04)

So I have a couple follow-ups on that, and side note, and my editor can cut this out. I just texted Natalie to confirm. I have another 15 minutes if you do. I don't know if you have a hard stop at noon. You're good, okay. Okay, perfect. So, happy when you edit this, you can cut that out. I have some rapid fire or quicker topics, and if any of these are interesting, then we could dive deeper into them. But...

Sara Barb (45:03.082)

Yeah, oh yeah. No, my nanny has to leave at one o'clock.

Chris Kiefer (45:23.02)

short, just like a couple things I'm curious about. Do you have a personal assistant or a virtual assistant to manage like your email, like phone calls, things like that?

Sara Barb (45:34.574)

Uh, this is what I need right now. This is probably one of my biggest pain points in my business. Right now what I'm doing is going through everything and forcing myself to sit down and see how do I go through my emails, write an SOP for it. I have a Word doc that's like getting to be 30, 40 pages long where I'm going through everything in my day and writing down an SOP. And now I need to go and outsource.

answering my email. I need to outsource someone to do my phone calls and that kind of stuff.

Chris Kiefer (46:08.548)

So I have, okay, so we'll come back to that one because that's a super interesting one. That was game changer for me. The other one is have you heard of Dan Martell? And he wrote a book called, Buy Back Your Time.

Sara Barb (46:11.703)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (46:20.382)

No, I haven't.

Chris Kiefer (46:23.588)

So that's someone that I would definitely recommend that he's actually coming to speak, uh, this Thursday for the coaching group that I'm in called man on a mission. Um, I think, you know, Matt Loughlin, obviously, uh, he's coming. So Dan Martell is coming to speak this Thursday, which I'm super pumped about, but he, his book, buy back your time is just like the most tactical book on like,

Sara Barb (46:34.042)

I know I'm sad I'm not there. Oh yeah.

Chris Kiefer (46:49.496)

this is the order that you buy back your time and do this. If you're feeling this, do this. And like when you have someone managing your email, here's templates that they can use when they're responding on your behalf. I'm all just like, it's absolutely amazing. So I did that a while ago and it was very scary cause it was like, they literally like my emails connected to bank accounts, like everything, you know, like they're gonna be seeing stuff, my mortgage payments come in and confirmations and things. So it's like there is, and he also says,

Sara Barb (46:54.157)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (47:10.518)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (47:19.476)

you should not like, it's tempting to be like, oh, now I'm going to try and segregate my personal and business and pull it apart and give someone access to your business, but not your personal email. He says, no, give them access to everything. You do not look at email unless someone else has already looked at it and told you, Hey, I don't know what to do with this. You should solve it. And the other thing I was going to say is I think just to challenge you

Sara Barb (47:29.44)

Mm.

When I... Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (47:44.94)

you should have your assistant be writing the SOPs and that shouldn't stop you from hiring an assistant because the assistant basically becomes your second brain and they start to learn what to do. He's got even systems around like here's your cadence so that you should follow up with them and meet with them and everything. That's that topic for sure. The other thing I was curious on though is that for...

Sara Barb (48:02.07)

Yes, the examination part.

Chris Kiefer (48:14.324)

And again, I'm just like spit firing all these topics and you can choose which one you want to come back to. But as far as the homesteading piece goes, how long have you been. Literally like trying to live off the land to the fullest extent that you can, like literally has this been for three months or six months or like. First, so that you started. Okay. Because, and this is Natalie, it seems like you and Natalie need to get together and talk because.

Sara Barb (48:29.846)

This is our first year. Yeah, no, this started this spring. Spring.

Chris Kiefer (48:43.404)

We live in Dalton, we have a little less than an acre, but she is like, she wants a garden and we have chickens now, which I was like, I love the idea of having a homestead, but I have zero interest in doing any work like that. Like I, every once in a while, I'm like, I wanna mow the lawn today, but she is like more excited to mow the lawn than I am. And she loves that type of stuff, but for me, I'm just like, there's so many other things I would rather do. However,

Sara Barb (48:59.65)

Hahaha

Chris Kiefer (49:13.456)

I know that there's all this science around like, you know, just getting your hands in the dirt and like how that affects your happiness levels and you know, everything. I'm sure you've got more stuff on that too. But I also wonder for someone like you, is this something that, uh, and this is, this is, I'm probably saying this to myself more than you, cause I don't actually know you. Is this going to last more than a year?

And then are you going to be like, okay, I'm going to put people in place to start making my bread and taking care of the chickens. Cause I feel like that's what I would do. Cause there's business is too interesting for me to actually think that I would be able to be on a homestead and do that for more than, I don't know, sick. Like it seems like a fun vacation. And then I would want to get back to my tech heavy oversaturated life. But I do think that I would secretly love the homestead life. I just would get bored.

Sara Barb (49:48.245)

Okay.

Sara Barb (50:10.41)

I am a s- I'm not a city girl. I grew up in the city. I've killed every plant I've ever owned. I've never had my own pet. It was always my sister's. I am not a homesteader, but it- homesteading speaks true down to my husband's core. It is like he has been gardening since he was probably five and he s-

is an animal whisperer. Like it's watching him. It's him in his element. So I'm you and Patrick is your wife. But that being said, I'm learning.

Chris Kiefer (50:52.653)

Well, no, but I was going to say Natalie also has killed every plant she's ever owned. Almost the garden. The garden is doing better than past years, but I feel like she has these very high aspirations. And we've joked around about this all the time, but it's like, I want that. I want it to be successful. But I am like, you I'm like the worst partner in this because I'm just like.

Sara Barb (51:02.198)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (51:17.324)

You can get chickens, but I'm not doing anything. And of course I'm out there getting more water and stuff, but I just am not, I just don't like it. I love the fresh eggs, but it's hard to justify the work instead of just getting 18 eggs at Costco or whatever.

Sara Barb (51:20.005)

Yes, that's me.

That's me.

Sara Barb (51:27.168)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (51:33.578)

Okay, well, let me back up and say why I'm actually really into this. My nephew has cancer right now. He's four years old. I have a four-year-old. They were, we had the same due date, me and my sister. Like, I'm not gonna tear up right now. Don't look like that because you're gonna make me tear up. I lost my dad to cancer also. I know I heard you. So...

getting down to the roots of our food seems like a very passionate piece of why is our society sick? Why are we sick? You know? And that is a driving force for me, so it's less to do with the fact that I really love taking care of animals and gardening and making bread. I love making bread now though. I do, it's very satisfying.

But what am I feeding my children? This goes into my health pillar where that's kind of where I looked at this and said, you know what, I'm all on board. Like Patrick brought this up and he really felt, he has a deep connection with things of nature. So it's very natural for him to do where I love the pursuit of business and all the things. But

I see our home setting as it falls into the pillar of health, but it also falls into the pillar of enterprising. How can we be resourceful in how we're producing our own foods and raising our kids to live in pursuit of that healthier lifestyle? Be at the front of where they're...

getting their food, how they're producing, how they're, you know, there's just so many lessons that we can teach our children in raising things, in having responsibilities in that way. So I kind of got on board on it. And as our children grow, we'll be integrating them into, they'll be what we're outsourcing things to, not in a way where I want to take away from, you know, them having a life.

Sara Barb (53:55.606)

but in a way where they're learning responsibility, that they're learning natural consequences, that they're learning where their food comes from so they don't have that kind of disconnect where they're getting the natural benefits of the grounding and the sunshine and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I'm all into it. And as far as like the actual homesteading goes, we went to the homesteading conference in...

Chris Kiefer (54:12.88)

Thanks for watching!

Sara Barb (54:22.114)

the modern homesteading convention in Coeur d'Alene this past June. And there was a great talk on having a business plan and an SLP for your homestead. It's not a hobby. It's a business. Treat it like one. Do you have an SLP for it? Do you know when your plants get watered? Can you automate watering your plants? Yes, you can. Can you automate how your chickens are taken care of? Yes, you can. Can you have a standard operating procedure for your homestead?

Chris Kiefer (54:36.612)

Hmm

Sara Barb (54:50.198)

so that you don't get burnt out? And then do you have a business plan that says, I'm gonna start here and then I'm going to add little steps along the way. So yeah, I still look at it like a business. And then next season, I'm super stoked because we're going to set up a vegetable stand on the road. We live on a busier road. We're gonna set up a vegetable stand on the road and have the children run it. Now let's teach them how to enterprise. Yeah, like, and it's simple skills.

Chris Kiefer (55:03.76)

Mmm.

Chris Kiefer (55:15.436)

Nice. That's awesome. How many acres do you have?

Sara Barb (55:20.454)

We have an acre and a quarter, but we don't get to utilize all of it because some of it's on business. So we're using about half an acre for our homestead right now. And it's as big as a garden and chickens, and then it's going to grow into goats. And then hopefully I can get some honeybees. And yeah, and I right now outsource some of the things like wheat. I do my own flour milling now, but I buy my wheat out of the Palouse where it's all clean and not sprayed and all that kind of stuff. But yeah.

Chris Kiefer (55:50.564)

Ah, interesting. Yeah, I think you and Natalie are going to have to have some conversations. I still feel like the automating part was, I'm like kind of intrigued by that, like, ooh, I should look into how to automate more of taking care of chickens. Because that's what I obsess about all the time, is just how do I never have to do this task again and have a robot do it for me? But it also seems, I will.

Sara Barb (56:12.119)

Yeah!

Or utilize your children. They're not robots, but...

Chris Kiefer (56:18.932)

True, yeah. You can automate the instructions so the kids get used to it. But yeah, I do think that one of this just reminds me of a friend in high school. They were well, like a well off family and their parents bought a I don't know what their total land was. They've maybe had 15 acres or 20 acres and they had five acres of blueberries. And every one of their kids worked on the blueberry farm for their summer job.

And then my, because we were friends with this family, from like an age, I feel like I started, and Natalie always gives me a hard time because I talk about how I started working when I was like seven. But we did, like my parents would take us out to the blueberry field at the Weibel's house, and we would like pick blueberries and get paid per pound, which turns out, it's very hard to make a lot of money when you eat more blueberries than you put in your bucket. So I didn't make a lot of money.

Sara Barb (56:59.054)

Hehehehe

Sara Barb (57:13.6)

Yes!

Chris Kiefer (57:15.8)

But I still had to work in the sun. And it was like, you know, but there's teaching hard work and I feel like that is something with what you're describing. Like if you are pursuing these other successes in life, I really do think that I really want to make sure my kids learn and understand how to think like an entrepreneur and to, it was actually, this is kind of a random topic. Maybe it's a bigger topic, maybe not, but the.

systemization or like standardizing of consequences and just listening to people. One thing that I've thought about for myself, and I don't even know how it was that my parents ultimately affected this in me, because my other siblings would arguably are not the same as I am, but I feel like there's a little bit of like rebelness that you need to have, or like you need to, how do you teach your kids when it's okay to not take no?

Sara Barb (58:00.361)

Hahaha

Chris Kiefer (58:10.812)

and to kind of go around the authority in place or whatever and pursue a different creative solution or being like you get rejected but you're gonna have to get rejected 100 more times. I almost feel like there's a temptation in parenting to have these docile kids that just do whatever you say and they're asking why and you're like, because I said so.

But it's like for me, I want kids to be like, because I said so isn't good enough. And you should question that, and you should figure out for yourself why is someone, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like you're mixing that in a little bit, or you've had some intentionality in what you're describing, but have you thought about that? Or how do you make sure that your kids ultimately are resourceful, not just like, I did what you told me, Mom, now can I go play? You know what I mean?

Sara Barb (58:57.684)

100%.

Sara Barb (59:04.726)

Yeah, where is, how do you motivate your kids? How do you drive them? Where do you question authority and where do you respect it? These are all big questions that have been on my table this year. And we pursued so many different schools and like the unschooling, we pursued so many different thoughts and it landed into homeschooling this year in.

the possibility of starting a school in the future where we can address with our kids. And if other people have the same mindset, bigger questions, how can we form our children to pursue bigger questions is huge on my plate right now. And in setting up our homeschool, this is...

kind of at the core of it, where we're not looking at traditional schooling at all, but really how to give our children every tool and opportunity to grow into their potential. And I think all of us as parents are looking at that.

and it's such a hard question. So I look at that's half the reason why I dive so deep in my own life is so that I can at least not maybe find answers, but try and point my kids in a better direction than maybe the status quo. And maybe I'm raising entrepreneurs, maybe I'm raising complete rebels, maybe I'm, but I mean like,

Chris Kiefer (01:00:52.368)

Hmm.

Sara Barb (01:00:58.786)

They just want to like adults, but in an unfiltered way, we wanna please the people around us. We want the deep and meaningful connections. We wanna have a purpose. And I see this so much in my six-year-old. He wants to know that what he's doing is good. And he looks for us, to us for affirmation on that. And we look at him and think, what are your skills in life? Where is this taking you?

How can we develop this further? What are you interested in? And he's a smart kid too. And how can we draw that out of you? And he wants to give up quickly. How can we help assist you to pursue that further? And I look a lot in when I'm trying to discover how I'm going to build our homeschool or our school in general, as a lot of what works in business.

works with our children too. They're just a little less filtered. They don't have the regulation that we have. But how can I build these things into them from the ground up, not have to learn it as an adult? How do I help them to learn what a habit stack is? How do I help them to set a why?

Chris Kiefer (01:02:11.024)

Hmm.

Sara Barb (01:02:22.786)

the one thing I love, all these books, I love Atomic Habits, I love You're Gonna Ask Me What I Love for Books, but I have so many, but like how do I build these systems into my children from how they're raised and how they learn and how they pursue things? Start with why, why are you doing this? My kid wants to learn, why do you want to learn? Because his cousin Ellie can learn and he can't stand that Ellie can do something that he can't do. That's why he wants to learn right now.

And then his Uncle Gus is 13 and Uncle Gus was reading him with that dragon series that's super popular but Uncle Gus was reading to him from this book and he's like, I want to read this. I'm like, that's great, let's learn how to read. So now he wants to read and we set up in my office a whole space just for him to learn how to read and once he learns how to read then he can buy books and he can read the books and he learns. So start with why.

Chris Kiefer (01:02:50.661)

Hahaha

Sara Barb (01:03:18.806)

focus on, you know, the one thing, what's the very next step that I can take to get me to the place that I want to be, like all these things. I'm looking at all the skills, the strategies, the mindsets and everything that I'm learning in business and as a person and diving 50 million miles deep and how can I build these into my children so that they have more tools in life.

so that they can answer the bigger questions. They can ask the bigger questions and they can pursue the answers to those questions. And I think that's one of the things that children are not being allowed these days where they say, here is a history book, go study it word by word. Here's an exam on the dry facts of dates of what happened in history or science or whatever it is without asking why, the deeper why.

Chris Kiefer (01:04:13.776)

Mmm.

Sara Barb (01:04:16.302)

pursuing that answer. I'm like, how can I let, my kids are toddlers right now, but that's why I look at the structure of how I'm educating my kids. And I start with, right now let's build the habits and the structures for a healthy life. Then can I guide you into asking bigger why questions? And then once you reach high school, can you.

Chris Kiefer (01:04:42.06)

There's a couple of things that you're making me think of is Anna Lorena Fabrega, I think is her name. Have you heard of her?

Sara Barb (01:04:50.422)

Mm hmm. Lorena.

Chris Kiefer (01:04:53.292)

Um, I just, someone in our, um, friend group just shared this, but it was a, I actually, um, I'll share it with you, but it's a, uh, she, what is she's a former teacher that, um, is now she calls herself an edupreneur and, um, she works for this company called synthesis.is. And it basically is they're trying to create.

The podcast that I'll share with you is like this very in-depth breakdown of how the education system is broken. Just if you go back to why do we educate the way that we do with ages and class sizes and teachers and the structure of schools and districts and just everything, how it's set up. It all came back from, I think she says Prussia during...

Sara Barb (01:05:48.401)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (01:05:49.196)

either right after World War I or World War II. That's kind of the modern system was from these companies that were trying to make more intelligent military. She just brings up a bunch of good stuff on how, like what you said about kids are naturally going to, they already want to learn.

Sara Barb (01:05:58.698)

Yeah, Jordan. Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:06:13.7)

So if you just tap into their desire and drive to learn and find out what they're interested in and what they're naturally good at and pursue that aggressively, they're gonna end up a lot more better off than saying like, okay, we're gonna do math for 45 minutes and then close that textbook and open up reading. And so anyways, a lot of things that I hadn't, like you probably actually dove into a lot of what she talks about, but for me, I hadn't taken much time to think about.

strategy behind education. But the one thing that really resonated with me was she said like, literally how crazy it is to think that you learn in subjects when in reality you're learning through like projects or problems and there's some reading and math and science and it's all mixed together, but it's not like, just is very weird for our brains to try and put things into cat like separate subjects because that's not how it works, you know? So anyways, I thought.

Sara Barb (01:06:55.899)

Mm. Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:07:12.627)

I have, yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:07:13.575)

I'll share this with you, but yeah.

Sara Barb (01:07:16.682)

I have a few thoughts to follow up on that. One, there is a, if you listen to Jordan Peterson, he recently had a couple episodes on this exact mindset around school, which some of the mindsets I completely agree with, some of them I have to question and dive in further, some of them I completely don't agree with, but that's part of the pursuit as far as that.

Jordan Peterson episode. But the second thing too, as far as like the school system is, why do we teach our children to spend all day at school working and then come home to do their homework all night? And then wonder why as adults we cannot find work-life balance. We cannot shut off our work mind when we get home, when we have been raised to do this from the time that we were five years old.

Chris Kiefer (01:08:09.744)

Hmm.

Sara Barb (01:08:14.702)

Where is that balance? Why aren't we pursuing that? So the school in that Jordan Peterson episode is an act in school. So it follows a lot of that mindset that you were just speaking of and we talked to them. They don't do homework. And we thought that was really great. They do their learning at school in a project setting like that. And maybe that's what that...

Chris Kiefer (01:08:16.206)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:08:40.182)

What was Anna Lorena? Maybe that's what she's doing is one of those acting schools. It kind of sounds a little bit like it, but yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:08:47.748)

Well, she, yeah, the thing, Anna Lorena, she specifically, the synthesis thing, which I feel like some people would be, I don't know where you fall with AI and technology, but they're trying to create the perfect tutor or a much better tutor that's like accessible to anyone by using AI. So obviously if you have the resources to just go buy, you know, the best tutor in the world for your kid, cause you're a billionaire, that's great.

Sara Barb (01:08:53.927)

Oh yeah.

Sara Barb (01:09:02.785)

Mm-hmm.

Sara Barb (01:09:08.76)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (01:09:16.6)

But how do you literally have AI be this amazing math tutor or reading tutor that goes at the pace that the child wants to, goes on the tangents that the child wants to, to try and keep them engaged and then go at the rate and the speed that they're capable of as opposed to, again, the idea of 30 kids in a class that are gonna do these subjects and these orders. So anyways.

Sara Barb (01:09:30.439)

Mm-hmm.

Sara Barb (01:09:36.718)

Sure.

Chris Kiefer (01:09:44.624)

I haven't actually tried the tool, but apparently the synthesis tool, they have created it for math so far, but their plan is to make it for other subjects as well. And it's the youngest age that they recommend is eight years old. So it's like just, it'd be stretching for Ellie and Ellie's also her best. She doesn't like math as much. So it's probably not a great fit, but I was going to play around with it to see, you know, how

Sara Barb (01:09:51.179)

Mm.

Sara Barb (01:09:55.574)

I can see that.

Sara Barb (01:10:00.673)

Okay.

Sara Barb (01:10:03.947)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:10:11.947)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:10:13.024)

if it's as good as they are saying that it is. Because I feel like to me, that's where I get excited is like bring technology into, bringing in the right way into our lives. Like social media is, you know, it just like, under teaching your kids about algorithms and how they're literally trying to like short circuit your reflexes and everything. So you don't even have time to think, you're just doing what, because it knows you, you know.

Sara Barb (01:10:15.278)

Sure, that's a-

Sara Barb (01:10:24.084)

in the right way.

Sara Barb (01:10:36.194)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:10:41.474)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:10:41.56)

But things like AI that is literally designed to try and make you a better learner, that seems like a great use of technology, you know?

Sara Barb (01:10:47.032)

Yeah.

Yeah, and exploring that. That's why we use Khan Academy kids right now for the kid for that's their tablet time. It's playing games and but they're learning through it and that's part of Khan Academy is they're trying to be intuitive with what you're learning and what you're good at. So we're using that and it's funny because I mean I went to college 10 years ago but I see a lot of college students these days using Khan Academy in college to help them learn.

their content in college. So the question is then when are we going to move away from the standard model of college and start to utilize this more when it's people are actually learning better with it anyway. But yeah and for me too like with the technology in the home I want my kids to be adequately like my husband grew up in a in a household where they were like no computer no nothing.

and he doesn't even know how to type and he gets so frustrated because we're business owners and he's like, I don't know how to do this and I wish that I had learned how. And it's like that yes, because this is where society is and these are tools that we can use and these are tools to help us progress further. So teaching that to our kids has been really important, but I have time limits on it where the bell goes off. Like I have a timer and it's like, the timer goes off, you're done.

because that's something that I want them to learn as adults that I hold myself to. That timer goes off and you have to get off social media because it is wired to, it's built to hack our brain into mindless droning, scrolling and all that kind of stuff. But so...

Chris Kiefer (01:12:36.28)

Yep. That was another thing that she said that I really liked was she said that your job as a parent is to, yeah, if you just never introduce an iPad or a tablet, like what you're not really addressing that learning opportunity with your kids. But what the way she suggests presenting this is telling your kids that screens in general TVs, iPads, whatever they're designed to never fulfill you.

Like you're never gonna feel like you had enough. You're always gonna want more. And so as a parent, my job is to, you know, protect and guide and teach you. So I'm like, you can be upset, but we know the reason that you're upset is because you were just on a screen. So I'm acknowledging and validating the emotion that you have.

Sara Barb (01:13:06.72)

Mm-hmm.

Sara Barb (01:13:20.968)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (01:13:24.676)

But the reality is just like, yep, I know. We never remember. We always feel like we want to watch more shows or we want to play longer on our game. That's literally what it's supposed to do. But we are humans and we have will and we are going to choose to do something else productive. Or like that type of approach is a better way, which again, in theory sounds nice. I haven't tried it yet with my six year old and four year old, but I think that it seems

Sara Barb (01:13:34.966)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:13:53.488)

to me more closely aligned to what I would want for my kids than just a screen free house that all of a sudden it's like at what age are they gonna get it? When they're 18, all of a sudden they get a phone and the internet and TV. It's like, that doesn't make any sense. So how else are you going to bring it in?

Sara Barb (01:13:59.938)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:14:07.714)

No, that's how, yeah, that's how my husband's family was. And we got to see firsthand how it didn't serve him, how it held him back. And then once he had access as an 18 year old to whatever he wanted, then he had to like, you know, then what you don't know how to manage it when you're not used to even

having like, you know, it's in front of you all the time. And it's like, even now, sometimes we've talked about it, like, it's so funny, because we'll go into a restaurant that has a TV and he just like sits there and can't focus on anything else. And it's like, is this because you grew up in a TV free home where you don't know how to pull your attention from it? It's a question. I don't know if that's the answer or not. But that is an interesting question to ask. Like, but yeah, all the big

Chris Kiefer (01:14:57.21)

Yeah, totally.

Sara Barb (01:15:03.278)

I think the biggest questions is, you know, how do we, how do we provide these things for our kids? The hardest questions.

Chris Kiefer (01:15:13.988)

So moving to my last final questions with you, what are the book recommendations that you have for the three, again, like we talked about before, either your favorite three, most recent three, three that are on the top of your mind right now, but give me three books from Sarah's Brain.

Sara Barb (01:15:37.366)

Yeah, because of the conversations that we had right now, I'm thinking three of them are it starts with why. And then the one thing I know is a Gary Keller book and then atomic habits. I know somebody said that before on your podcast. Other ones that I'm just going to throw out there because they're recent are and also pertaining to this discussion is dopamine nation. It goes real in depth.

on our dopamine system. Is that what it's called? I'm pretty sure it's dopamine nation. But that speaks to the social media scrolling and that kind of stuff. My favorite business book is Traction, just because it's so easy to digest in how to build a business. But they're so like those are all more on the personal development and the business side. But you know, I read a lot.

Chris Kiefer (01:16:21.744)

Mm.

Sara Barb (01:16:35.314)

I listen a lot and I read a lot so there's many, many books in my...

Chris Kiefer (01:16:43.453)

Awesome. And then favorite movie.

Sara Barb (01:16:47.742)

I still don't know any answer to this. I don't know. I like the Italian job and I like the Princess Bride and I like random movies, but I haven't watched movies.

Chris Kiefer (01:17:00.164)

The Italian Job, that was like one of my favorite movies. We'll go with that one, that's a classic. That type of movie is like my favorite type of movie from when I was like in, I don't remember what year they came out, but high school, middle school for me. The Italian Job was like, the Italian Job, Ocean's Eleven, all the heist movies with the master plan and you think you got it figured out and yeah, I love those.

Sara Barb (01:17:09.73)

Huh.

Sara Barb (01:17:14.207)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:17:21.046)

Yes.

Sara Barb (01:17:29.005)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Kiefer (01:17:29.964)

So we'll go with that one. Thank you for sharing. If someone wants to get in touch with you, what is the recommended way or what's your preference on them doing that?

Sara Barb (01:17:32.451)

Hehehehehehe

Sara Barb (01:17:40.622)

Sure, don't call me until I have my assistant because I won't answer, but you can always text me at 208-981-1616 and then all of my socials are at the sarahbarb.

Chris Kiefer (01:17:47.529)

Haha.

Chris Kiefer (01:17:57.98)

Awesome. That's convenient that you got all those. Are you on like TikTok and stuff too with that?

Sara Barb (01:18:02.638)

I did it on purpose.

Sara Barb (01:18:07.246)

Oh heck no. I know myself and I cannot even stand the reels on Facebook With you know, like I and I don't like the scroll so I will not get to talk That's just a dirty it tick-tock is a dirty game

Chris Kiefer (01:18:22.88)

Yeah.

Chris Kiefer (01:18:27.52)

Oh yeah, it's not, it is, I have, I feel like I know there's an opportunity out there, but I have not, the fact that Instagram and Facebook are tied together, it's like, you know, cheating to post on both, but that's what I do. And it's like the, those are my two. Anyways, Sarah, this was fun. Thank you so much for coming on.

Sara Barb (01:18:41.581)

Yeah.

Sara Barb (01:18:45.562)

I will get TikTok when I outsource it. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Chris Kiefer (01:18:50.296)

Yeah, exactly. Totally. Yeah, this is fun. Thank you. And I'm sure we'll be in touch.

Sara Barb (01:18:58.198)

Yeah, thanks Chris, this was a blast.

Chris Kiefer (01:19:03.5)

and then just leave this screen.